Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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You know, Bernie could release Red Bull's transcripts, or Button's, but he only gives us a snippet of Lewis' and of course you'd be forgiven for wondering why.

Actually, no you wouldn't, because the answer is obvious - he's just stirring the pot. Nothing to see here.

That, or McLaren clearly are favoring Kimi. Sorry, Alonso—I mean Hamiton, or Button rather. I'm so confused - why am I supposed to hate McLaren now?

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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DaveKillens wrote:Right now, I believe that asking drivers to slow down is like mixing gasoline with fire, you are asking selfish and aggressive people to slow down and play nice with others.
They were all running on a fuel budget that was set with supremacy in mind. Red Bull and McLaren must both have been surprised that the Macs could follow the Bulls or they would have taken more fuel for a race of full engine power on board.

You are right to say that executing team tactics is not easy but this is the skill that sometimes decides the driver championship. I dare forecast that both front running teams will pull up their socks and demand much more driver discipline.

Red Bull have been particularly blue eyed to be duped by Webber and Pillbeam in the way they were. #-o Horner had no button to speak to the drivers and had to make all his calls through the race engineers. How dumb is that? When Horner told Pilbeam to tell Webber not to fight Vettel's pass the guy simply ignored the order and told Webber a coded signal that meant "push the overtaking button".

I bet that McLaren are a bit wiser or more trained in the art of managing their drivers. At least they seem to be able to tell their drivers the right code words.

No refuelling brutally forces the drivers to go faster in qualifying and make passes on the race track. The fans get to see a lot of the action that previously was hidden by race strategies and passing in the pits. I must say that I prefer the no refuelling mode. If I were making the decisions I would even abolish the foolish tyre rule. With a new tyre deal on the table they can abolish the marketing tweak that was guaranteed to Bridgestone and give them freedom to race whatever tyres they see fit for the race.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

thestig84
thestig84
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Joined: 19 Nov 2009, 13:09

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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WhiteBlue wrote: No refuelling brutally forces the drivers to go faster in qualifying and make passes on the race track. The fans get to see a lot of the action that previously was hidden by race strategies and passing in the pits. I must say that I prefer the no refuelling mode. If I were making the decisions I would even abolish the foolish tyre rule. With a new tyre deal on the table they can abolish the marketing tweak that was guaranteed to Bridgestone and give them freedom to race whatever tyres they see fit for the race.
Well said =D> =D>

Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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Untrue, but well said.

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Paul
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 19:33

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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How can Horner not have a direct link to the drivers if he is always congratulating them after winning finishes? :wtf:

feynman
feynman
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Joined: 02 Mar 2010, 20:36

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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Pup wrote:You know, Bernie could release Red Bull's transcripts, or Button's, but he only gives us a snippet of Lewis' and of course you'd be forgiven for wondering why.

Actually, no you wouldn't, because the answer is obvious - he's just stirring the pot. Nothing to see here.
Well I doubt Bernie is sitting there with his torrented copy of Sony Vegas cutting up video ... but there is definitley something to see here, as evidenced by us all seeing it, watching it, mouths gaping.

It's a quick promo video with music and bright colors designed to promote 'The Race', so let's not expect judicial standards of evidence, but also, let's not dismiss it either, it just told us all a lot more than we knew this time yesterday.

The two things that should happen:

- McLaren should take time before Canada to explain, honestly, what went wrong, cos we all now heard, something went badly wrong. A turn 1 re-overtake away from team-shatteringly catastrophically wrong.

- And going forward they should also make the commitment to live-stream their radio traffic as part of their now clearly useless and redundant Race 1.0b website.
Rather than give the inside-track, it sits there like Pravda or the North Korean news agency, it didn't even cover radio transmissions heard as part of the world feed, never mind vital traffic that rears its head a few days later in a Formula1.com pop video. What's the point?

Tell Bernie to shove FOM paddock-wide copyright grabs up his arse, both radio channels are going up on the website. Other teams are already listening, race-stewards have the tapes (just ask Dave Ryan), FOM TV and the pitlane reporters are listening, the only ones getting the high-hat, kept in the dark, are the paying punters, muggins, as per usual.

thestig84
thestig84
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Joined: 19 Nov 2009, 13:09

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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feynman wrote: - And going forward they should also make the commitment to live-stream their radio traffic as part of their now clearly useless and redundant Race 1.0b website.
Rather than give the inside-track, it sits there like Pravda or the North Korean news agency, it didn't even cover radio transmissions heard as part of the world feed, never mind vital traffic that rears its head a few days later in a Formula1.com pop video. What's the point?
It is now 1.1b Anyway it its a good service and should be kept. If you dont like it you dont have to use it. It never claimed to display all radio traffic. It is a way of keeping up with the race (like the live timing) from Mclarens view, maybe if you dont have tv access. They describe the race and provide info telemetry and webcam shots of the garage. Radio transmissions add to the info.

Its great to see a F1 team opening up. How can you expect them to put every bit of info up, a lot is boring anyway. I dont see any other teams offering open services like this.

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ISLAMATRON
0
Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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It matters not at all because fuel saving Lou can repass full blast JB easy as pie. Jensen is pathetic, and proved it again in Turkey. Punks jump up to get beat down.

Reminds me of when Kobayashi made JB look rediculous in Brazil, and then again in abu dhabi... pure comedy.

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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Both were told to save fuel and the radio transmissions to both were broadcast during the race coverage. Based on their lap times not really increasing and Hamilton being caught napping I am sure it was a coded message.

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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Button hung his hat where he couldn't reach it. I would have really like to see how the last 8 laps would have unfolded had button got back up and asked for more. he would have been repassed 5 times at least if he kept on trying.
When he passed hamilton and was hounded down, that was the scariest thing i saw in F1 in a while. Looked kind of humiliating seeing him run away only to be slapped back down into p2 a few hundred metres down the road.

Whitmarsh must be working extra hard to give button a fair fight in the races ahead. :lol:
because Lewis simply wont allow Jenson to be ahead of him on merit.

About how the races are going, i like the on track battles, but to me i would preffer refueling. There is really not much difference if some cars are simply superior, you just wont get any battling on track.
The good thing with refueling is that the cars run 100% full steam throughout the race, increasing the chances of a mistake and also pushing the tyres to the limit.
This limp home mode kind of racing kinds of kills the buz for me at the end of the race. I would rather a sprint to the finish with tyres dropping away and cars over steering and twitching. Ending of Monza 2009 is a good example.

Refueling also reduces the chances of team orders in the last stint. We see how teams get creative with pitstop laps and fuel saving orders. They actually have more opportunities and cover ups without refueling.
For Sure!!

feynman
feynman
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Joined: 02 Mar 2010, 20:36

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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thestig84 wrote: It is now 1.1b Anyway it its a good service and should be kept. If you dont like it you dont have to use it. It never claimed to display all radio traffic. It is a way of keeping up with the race (like the live timing) from Mclarens view, maybe if you dont have tv access. They describe the race and provide info telemetry and webcam shots of the garage. Radio transmissions add to the info.

Its great to see a F1 team opening up. How can you expect them to put every bit of info up, a lot is boring anyway. I dont see any other teams offering open services like this.
Always someone ready to limp-in and defend those that are looking to make a monkey out of them. They tried to misrepresent the facts and make you look foolish. Some weird variation of Stockholm Syndrome or something I guess.

Insulting our inteligence with that clearly redundant and not fit for purpose endeavour, v1.0, v1.1, wake-me up when it hits 3.0 and stops trying to so blatently pull the wool over our eyes, or treat us like dopes.

Do it ... or don't do it ... but don't waste people's time with a half-hearted, bland fiction of a PR nonsense.

What did they achieve by serving-up to their most active fans crude misinformation and a redacted, glossed-over mis-summary of the facts as they (and the guy in the FOM TV truck) knew them to be. Did they learn nothing from Ryan, the tapes will always get out. Attempts at obfuscation or post-race pitwall spin will always come undone.

The commentary provided is pretty lightweight, the telemetry numbers come heavily smeared via a random-number generator and are shorn of all context or comparison, pretty useless. And now we know for certain, the summary of radio-traffic is partial, minimal, deceptive and sub-standard.
I've got live streams and live-timing on the go, I can't afford to waste laptop-screen real-estate or valuable CPU clocks on something now proven in broad daylight to be utterly pointless.

For shame, they had the chance to do something right, do something good, be open, treat supporters with a modicum of respect, but too frightened, too timid, too corporate, they fumbled it. Outed as a pointless sham of service, it'll not be missed. They did it to themselves.

That's why I don't bother with it anymore. OK, you apparently seem quite content with it, so you stick with it, kept in the dark and actively deceived ... I'll just wait for something a bit nearer the truth to emerge a week or so later in a 3 and half minute pop-video. Like I say, shame.

Ignore Bernie, stream the audio, Mr Whitmarsh, you have nothing to fear. A bit of daylight will do wonders.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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ringo wrote: When he passed hamilton and was hounded down, that was the scariest thing i saw in F1 in a while. Looked kind of humiliating seeing him run away only to be slapped back down into p2 a few hundred metres down the road.
It amazes me how the words slip and stream appear nowhere in your point.
Button went inside tight, and hamilton a wider outside but faster exit.
Its what happens in close battles as 2 cars cannot occupy the same bit of tarmac, and decent drivers dont yield and fall straight behind.
They keep momentum to get as much speed out the corner as is possible whereas the overtaker is defending a line taken.
What hamilton did well was stay close out the exit.

Button was never going to slam the door on Hamilton, which he could have done in turn 1. Instead they just touched and hamilton went on to win.
Its beyond me how this makes Hamilton great and Button bad though.....
More could have been done.
David Purley

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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to say Button is not deserving ...hey he is 2.nd in the 2010 ranking and has 2 wins under his belt already and Hamilton has not yet wiped the floor with poor jenson
something almost everybody had expected.
he can´t be so bad or maybe he is doing tricks ...maybe he is a relative to Hudini :wtf: ?

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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It's probably related to his "journeyman" years... It took him what... 6 years to win a race? Then another 3 to win a championship. Then the Nigel Mansell Effect™ took over as it did for Webber after Spain and just boosted his confidence. Before that I don't think anyone would have really pegged him championship material.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

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I didn't say button was bad, he is quite good, but that's what made the retake even more dominating. Button is not being destroyed, but he is not looking equally matched to his teammate like the Massa and Raikonen pairing; the best driver pairing in a long while.
He wont be destroyed, he is too experienced. He can be outmatched though, which we are already seeing.
For Sure!!