2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[piast9]

a ban on team orders is virtually impossible to enforce, and it wouldn't change anything. The teams would still agree before the race, like they do now, that after the last pitstop they hold positions.

I am sure such ban would prevent ridiculous situation in which Rosberg was today because it would be obvious that he was held back by team orders. Rosberg team put more fuel in the car so he schould be able to benefit from it. On the other hand it could prevent at least the officially presented anger from Webber. Vettel managed to overtake so he (or he + his race engineer) managed the race better so Webber couldn't say it was unfair or that they agreed before the race to do otherwise.

[myurr]

Rosberg the sly devil. I have just had a revelation. The first set of Radio messages were just after Rosberg tryed and failed to overtake Hamilton on his own asking the team to move him out of the way, very similar with Vettel earlier on in the race. The team refused and told him to hold station. All this time I thought Rosberg was the victim in that battle but really he might not be. Rosberg derserved third place as did Hamilton but could he have got the podium on his own?

If memory serves he only asked to be allowed to attack and pass, he didn't ask for Hamilton to be moved out of the way. There's a difference. He played it well though. I thought he was cleverer asking for Hamilton to pick up the pace, ie. prove he can actually go faster and was just driving to the delta.

[myurr]

a ban on team orders is virtually impossible to enforce, and it wouldn't change anything. The teams would still agree before the race, like they do now, that after the last pitstop they hold positions.

I am sure such ban would prevent ridiculous situation in which Rosberg was today because it would be obvious that he was held back by team orders. Rosberg team put more fuel in the car so he schould be able to benefit from it. On the other hand it could prevent at least the officially presented anger from Webber. Vettel managed to overtake so he (or he + his race engineer) managed the race better so Webber couldn't say it was unfair or that they agreed before the race to do otherwise.

It also didn't help in Hockenheim when Massa let Alonso pass. Officially there weren't any team orders, but the team were made to look really stupid in trying to perpetuate that lie. I really dislike team orders and wish there weren't any, but equally I can't see of a clean way of actually getting rid of them in a policeable way.

[turbof1]

Clearly a d*ck move by Vettel. Fighting for positions is one thing, but if:

1. You and your teammate are ordered to drive for a delta time
2. Your teammate follows this
2. You know that your teammate has to drive a delta

and you then ignore that what is asked of you, you are a really sad, sad person. It would be the same like asking both of them to race eachother in Caterhams but Vettel brings a Red Bull instead. And he does not genuinly admitt he was wrong; he made a confession which was forced by the team itself.

Compare that to Hamilton vs Rosberg; it would have been much more acceptable when Rosberg ignored orders because Rosberg infact spared his fuel load earlier on. The advantage he had was because he simply drove better then Hamilton. Still he followed orders. Very happy that Lewis inmediately said on the podium that Nico should have been there instead of him.

Also note how Vettel very arrogantly demanded that Webber should let him pass. Spoiled brat... .

[SilverArrow10]

Rosberg the sly devil. I have just had a revelation. The first set of Radio messages were just after Rosberg tryed and failed to overtake Hamilton on his own asking the team to move him out of the way, very similar with Vettel earlier on in the race. The team refused and told him to hold station. All this time I thought Rosberg was the victim in that battle but really he might not be. Rosberg derserved third place as did Hamilton but could he have got the podium on his own?

If memory serves he only asked to be allowed to attack and pass, he didn't ask for Hamilton to be moved out of the way. There's a difference. He played it well though. I thought he was cleverer asking for Hamilton to pick up the pace, ie. prove he can actually go faster and was just driving to the delta.

o right is that what happened?. Thats put out my bonfire. But its an intresting thought He had already tried passing Hamilton and couldnt do it before the messages started.

[myurr]

Rosberg the sly devil. I have just had a revelation. The first set of Radio messages were just after Rosberg tryed and failed to overtake Hamilton on his own asking the team to move him out of the way, very similar with Vettel earlier on in the race. The team refused and told him to hold station. All this time I thought Rosberg was the victim in that battle but really he might not be. Rosberg derserved third place as did Hamilton but could he have got the podium on his own?

If memory serves he only asked to be allowed to attack and pass, he didn't ask for Hamilton to be moved out of the way. There's a difference. He played it well though. I thought he was cleverer asking for Hamilton to pick up the pace, ie. prove he can actually go faster and was just driving to the delta.

o right is that what happened?. Thats put out my bonfire. But its an intresting thought He had already tried passing Hamilton and couldnt do it before the messages started.

I think that actually helps put Mercedes in a better light. They had their pitstops; they had tried to battle it out for I think 3 laps; Rosberg failed to make a pass and make it stick; Hamilton had pulled out of the DRS zone; they were both told to back off and bring the cars home.

[turbof1]

The idiocity in that lies in the double DRS zone. Hamilton would let Rosberg pass at the very end of the first DRS zone, after which he could just use the second one for his own and overtake Rosberg on the pitstraight. IMO Rosberg played that one very badly.

[myurr]

Clearly a d*ck move by Vettel. Fighting for positions is one thing, but if:

1. You and your teammate are ordered to drive for a delta time
2. Your teammate follows this
2. You know that your teammate has to drive a delta

and you then ignore that what is asked of you, you are a really sad, sad person. It would be the same like asking both of them to race eachother in Caterhams but Vettel brings a Red Bull instead. And he does not genuinly admitt he was wrong; he made a confession which was forced by the team itself.

Compare that to Hamilton vs Rosberg; it would have been much more acceptable when Rosberg ignored orders because Rosberg infact spared his fuel load earlier on. The advantage he had was because he simply drove better then Hamilton. Still he followed orders. Very happy that Lewis inmediately said on the podium that Nico should have been there instead of him.

Also note how Vettel very arrogantly demanded that Webber should let him pass. Spoiled brat... .

What's telling, and neatly illustrates what the drivers really felt about the situation, was the difference between Hamilton and Vettel when they first got out of the cars. Vettel went through his usual celebrations, giving it the finger as he's number 1, an' all that rubbish. Hamilton got out of the car, went straight over to Nico without celebrating, and gave him a hug.

Night and day difference in attitude and respect.

[myurr]

The idiocity in that lies in the double DRS zone. Hamilton would let Rosberg pass at the very end of the first DRS zone, after which he could just use the second one for his own and overtake Rosberg on the pitstraight. IMO Rosberg played that one very badly.

The double DRS zone is silly, but as you say Rosberg played it poorly whilst Hamilton played it to his advantage. They each had the same tools at their disposal, well except Hamilton was having to save fuel for the rest of the lap.

[ringo]

The race where the faster car won...

You don't get it do you?
None of the cars were faster. Their pace was dictated. It's false to say which car was faster, both were at 80% by instruction from the team.
The race was won by the car that didn't follow team strategy, not by the faster car. At no point did we see who was fastest, no one was pushing at 100%.

We saw that last week with Kimi, he said it was an easy win, he wasn't pushing.

[danielk]

Vettel has lost the respect of many in his actions. Don't be surprised if he gets boo'd for the rest of the season,and rightly so. If that had happened the other way round red bull would have ordered mark to give the place back. I just hope mark can return the favour in the future. Maybe a title decider race. Seb clearly lied, to mark, to the team, to the media and to his fans. He has had to admit he lied by the team. Mark was the better driver by far this race. He came from 5th on the grid and outperformed Vettel starting on pole. Vettel over gaining 8 points over his team mate, and to try and show his superiority risked losing 43 points for the team. It got real close. If I was in webers position I woulda pushed him off the track. Webber kept the team in mind and conceded in the end for the good of the team coz he saw where it was heading. Vet tells actions were childish, his comments during the race was childish, and his lieing at the end. Vettel is fast and skilled, but he's damaging red bulls reputation. This is a p.r disaster for red bull and will cost them dearly. Vettel is becoming more and more hated, before it could be put down to jealousy, but now there is very good reason. Clearly above the Vettel fanboys think Vettel can do nothing wrong and seek to flame the most down to earth, genuine and nicest driver on the grid. Shame on you guys

[ringo]

In my opinion the conclusion from this race is simple: if you don't want to have so gloomy and tense podiums after the race the team orders have to be banned again. I understand the team's attitude but they spoil the show.

Team orders are going to carry more weight if the drivers can't push the cars.
The sport needs more durable tyres so all drivers drive at 100%. If a driver is to overtaken it would be because he's not fast enough. Not because he has to turn down to 80% and coast home cause the tyres may delaminate.

[nacho]

Loved it.

[woohoo]

It was an alrigt race, I thoght.
I suspect some teams Ferrari and Lotus had set their cars up for a dry race more than a wet, and so were slow off the line, but were quick enough to come back once the track had dried out.

What Vettel did was pathetic.
Team orders are, and always will be present in F1, maybe just not over open radio or coded ("Alono is faster than you...")
Putting really risky maneuvers on your team mate never did Vettel any good. Like back in Turkey...
If your team mate is just holding station, and you are making desperate passes you are not a team player.

If Red Bull are going for Vettel to win the championship, there will be times when Webber will have to move over for him, so giving Weber the win today would have helped Vettel in the team spirit latter on.

[Mandrake]

If he knew he was going to have to fight would Webber have been on the prime tyres for that final stint? Would he have been able to pull out of the DRS zone had he not been reassured that Vettel would not attack again? It's not as clear cut as you make out.

Well, if MW was just 0,5 seconds slower on his in-lap or in the pits he would have come out behind Vettel after the pits....why would he choose hards then? It wasn't given he'd stay 1st after the stop?

As an aside:

Anybody else think that Rosberg's pace relative to Hamilton (I'm talking in general not the last stint of this race) puts the 43 year-old Schumacher's pace in a different light? I think there's a lot of evidence to suggest that Schumacher was generally quicker than Rosberg last year.

Good point, I though so too. We might have to give HAM a bit more time in the car, but as Schumacher was faster in Quali and Race than Rosberg, and not just by a tenth, HAM is not THE UBER DRIVER some make him here Or MSC is not as bad and old as some people were talking him down here

Clearly a d*ck move by Vettel. Fighting for positions is one thing, but if:

1. You and your teammate are ordered to drive for a delta time
2. Your teammate follows this
2. You know that your teammate has to drive a delta

.......

Also note how Vettel very arrogantly demanded that Webber should let him pass. Spoiled brat... .

If you only look at MW, that might be okay, but ordering MW to drive to a delta, meaning SV is stuck behind him getting caught by HAM is like a punch in the face.

Had MW driven quicker, SV would not have asked for a pass and would not have been caught by HAM, easy as that....RedBull risked a 1-2 by putting MW's delta too low for SV and HAM