2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

[Jolle]

You dont need defensive driving per sy monaco. Just driving on the racing line is eniugh to block people.

Exactly, especially when off the racing line was still damp and/or had no grip.

With regards to the outlaps... A lot of people seem to believe that the only reason Hamilton's outlap was was slow was because of the Ultra Softs taking time to warm up.

I was sat, at the race, just after the swimming pool section. His outlap had been quick enough up until that point and he went past before Ricciardo had even got to his pit box, but the track hadn't dried fully between there and the start/finish straight and it took him forever to get round Rascasse and the final corner. This, more than anything else, is the reason that lap was so slow but given the lack of sector timing for random laps throughout the race nobody seems to have picked up on it.

Yes,

Ham's lap times: 1:49.8 (Pit) - 1:41.8 (outlap) - 1:30.4
Ric's lap times: 1:56.4 (Pit) - 1:33.9 (outlap) - 1:30.0

So, comparing the two, RIC lost 7s in his pit stop, HAM "lost" 8s on out lap.
The only other real top driver with a similar slow outlap was, unsurprisingly, Rosberg. Looks like cold"ish" tires.

[Juzh]

Now if you check the race pace data, you can Checo Perez was closing in on Hamilton in a Force India on super soft tyres.

Perez was on softs. Not super super soft. Check again.

[Andres125sx]

A bit cringeworthy when you make sweeping statements with nothing but hot air to back it up. The SS was switching on quicker than the US tyres, Force India themselves proved this in the race
All of which means 1 of 2 things. Suddenly Mercedes dropped to Force India levels, or Hamilton was protecting his tyres to see him to the end of the race.

I think you should read my reply again

Hamilton used US tires while Ricciardo used SS, and Perez used S. Fact

Hamilton said after the race Mercedes cannot use as much DF as RBR. Fact.

Perez was faster on S than Hamilton on US. Fact

So please tell me the reason for Mercedes to use US tires and force Hamilton to drive at McLaren pace to make them last the whole race, instead of using SS or S wich were a lot more reasonable tires considering the laps remaining


After analysing these facts, I think Mercedes thought they could have had problems to put SS or S tires on the operating temperature window, if you disagree that´s an opinion like any other, but please, don´t say this reasoning is cringeworthy because it is far from that, actually it is a lot more reasonable than your reply....

[Andres125sx]

BTW, there are several seasons in a row where Monaco GP winner was far from the fastest driver on track. Ok, obviously that was because he was good enough to lead the race and have the chance to simply protect the position, but it gives a good idea about how "good" is racing in Monaco

But hey, there´s a lot of glamour in the paddock....

[Andres125sx]

...Then Sainz had another bad stop and lost to Alonso. Bigger story than Ricciardo because Toro Rosso lost potentially the podium they won't get soon, imagine: 1. Ricciardo 2. LH 3. Sainz in Toro Rosso.

It is amazing how many points Sainz lost in these two seasons due to bad pit-stops.

I´m sure his mechanics have the worst pitstop average time in the paddock by a huge margin with the second. In Monaco it was even more outrageous, at the track where pit-stops are most important, they failed on both pit-stops and ruined Carlos race and first STR podium since they used RBR chasis.

Edit: it would have been second podium for the team, I´ve just checked it and their only podium is Vettel victory in 2008

So the screw-up was epic, they could have achieved second best result in team history, best using their own resources, only to ruin it with two poor pit-stops

edit2: Sainz lost 3 and 3.4 seconds on each pitstop (for a total of 42 pitstops, those were 34th and 35th fastest). Kvyat lost 3 seconds too on his only pitstop (33th). STR should be trainging pit-stops night and day I think.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/30/2 ... pit-stops/

[Vasconia]

edit2: Sainz lost 3 and 3.4 seconds on each pitstop (for a total of 42 pitstops, those were 34th and 35th fastest). Kvyat lost 3 seconds too on his only pitstop (33th). STR should be trainging pit-stops night and day I think.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/05/30/2 ... pit-stops/

They should have done it before but I hope they will do it now. A lost podium should be enough reason to shake things in the team.

[FoxHound]

Now if you check the race pace data, you can Checo Perez was closing in on Hamilton in a Force India on super soft tyres.

Perez was on softs. Not super super soft. Check again.

Thank you for the correction.

Which further emphasises the point don't you think???

[FoxHound]

A bit cringeworthy when you make sweeping statements with nothing but hot air to back it up. The SS was switching on quicker than the US tyres, Force India themselves proved this in the race
All of which means 1 of 2 things. Suddenly Mercedes dropped to Force India levels, or Hamilton was protecting his tyres to see him to the end of the race.

I think you should read my reply again

Hamilton used US tires while Ricciardo used SS, and Perez used S. Fact

Hamilton said after the race Mercedes cannot use as much DF as RBR. Fact.

Perez was faster on S than Hamilton on US. Fact

So please tell me the reason for Mercedes to use US tires and force Hamilton to drive at McLaren pace to make them last the whole race, instead of using SS or S wich were a lot more reasonable tires considering the laps remaining


After analysing these facts, I think Mercedes thought they could have had problems to put SS or S tires on the operating temperature window, if you disagree that´s an opinion like any other, but please, don´t say this reasoning is cringeworthy because it is far from that, actually it is a lot more reasonable than your reply....

Hamilton said Mercedes cannot use as much downforce as Red Bull??
Source me this quote please.

You are still running this comparison line when it makes no sense to do so.
Perez matched Hamiltons times on 2 grades of tyre lower than the Merc.(thanks for the correction Juzh).

A force India on softs matching a Mercedes on ultra softs.

There can be no comparison when all the drivers are driving around to protect their tyres. Do you understand this?

You are making the sweeping statements that x is better than y but you still cannot prove it, and have no data set to back anything up. This is is cringe worthy I'm afraid.

[drunkf1fan]

You dont need defensive driving per sy monaco. Just driving on the racing line is eniugh to block people.

Exactly, especially when off the racing line was still damp and/or had no grip.

With regards to the outlaps... A lot of people seem to believe that the only reason Hamilton's outlap was was slow was because of the Ultra Softs taking time to warm up.

I was sat, at the race, just after the swimming pool section. His outlap had been quick enough up until that point and he went past before Ricciardo had even got to his pit box, but the track hadn't dried fully between there and the start/finish straight and it took him forever to get round Rascasse and the final corner. This, more than anything else, is the reason that lap was so slow but given the lack of sector timing for random laps throughout the race nobody seems to have picked up on it.

But in what way does that mean the ultras weren't responsible? Those on ultra tires did significantly slower outlaps than those on softs. The softs turned on and provided more grip through those sections that Hamilton was slower in. How did guys on tires other than ultras have more grip and more speed through that section of not because their tires were quicker. Likewise how did Hamilton go from a 101 outlap to a 90 second next lap, while Perez did a 94 outlap and 2 laps earlier than Hamilton?

[dans79]

Hamilton was in the lead, and had everything to loose, so he was cautious. He himself, said the first few laps on slicks was driving on ice.

[3jawchuck]

Hamilton said Mercedes cannot use as much downforce as Red Bull??
Source me this quote please.

I remember him saying "they had more downforce than us" in his post race interview with Sky, but not "they can use more downforce than us". Maybe in another interview.

[Andres125sx]

A bit cringeworthy when you make sweeping statements with nothing but hot air to back it up. The SS was switching on quicker than the US tyres, Force India themselves proved this in the race
All of which means 1 of 2 things. Suddenly Mercedes dropped to Force India levels, or Hamilton was protecting his tyres to see him to the end of the race.

I think you should read my reply again

Hamilton used US tires while Ricciardo used SS, and Perez used S. Fact

Hamilton said after the race Mercedes cannot use as much DF as RBR. Fact.

Perez was faster on S than Hamilton on US. Fact

So please tell me the reason for Mercedes to use US tires and force Hamilton to drive at McLaren pace to make them last the whole race, instead of using SS or S wich were a lot more reasonable tires considering the laps remaining


After analysing these facts, I think Mercedes thought they could have had problems to put SS or S tires on the operating temperature window, if you disagree that´s an opinion like any other, but please, don´t say this reasoning is cringeworthy because it is far from that, actually it is a lot more reasonable than your reply....

Hamilton said Mercedes cannot use as much downforce as Red Bull??
Source me this quote please.

Sky post-race interviews

You are still running this comparison line when it makes no sense to do so.
Perez matched Hamiltons times on 2 grades of tyre lower than the Merc.(thanks for the correction Juzh).

A force India on softs matching a Mercedes on ultra softs.

There can be no comparison when all the drivers are driving around to protect their tyres. Do you understand this?

You are making the sweeping statements that x is better than y but you still cannot prove it, and have no data set to back anything up. This is is cringe worthy I'm afraid.

Where did I say x is better than y?

Basically the cringe worthy statement is yours, becasue I never said what you think

I´ve only said that statement from Lewis made me think, and that might be the reason Mercedes chose US tires, they might be afraid with that cold and wet conditions they could have problems to put harder tires on its operating window, so they decided to go with US even if that meant Hamilton was forced to drive extremely carefully to make them last 47 laps

As you can see that´s quite far from stating x is better than y, I´m only trying to analyze the race, and we all know some cars are happier with colder temperatures, while others shine with hotter tarmac, so even when Perez was faster on S, you cannot say Mercedes would have been faster with those tires.

Or maybe yes we can and Mercedes made a mistake, that´s what I´m trying to figure out

[Andres125sx]

Hamilton said Mercedes cannot use as much downforce as Red Bull??
Source me this quote please.

I remember him saying "they had more downforce than us" in his post race interview with Sky, but not "they can use more downforce than us". Maybe in another interview.

If my memory serve me well, the exact words where "they use more DF than we can". Maybe not that exactly, but he certainly used the word can, because that´s what I found interesting

[Andres125sx]

Found it, but now I´m not sure he said what I initially thought, I can´t understand some words....


timecode 1:25: "they have more downforce ############### we can"

[3jawchuck]

Found it, but now I´m not sure he said what I initially thought, I can´t understand some words....


timecode 1:25: "they have more downforce ############### we can"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1CYBL6Aupg

"They had more downforce than us this weekend"