2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[McLarenMor]

Unless something remarkable happen, given the last couple of races, RedBull are on a league of their own in high-speed, let's hope this will change when you can setup to more of the high speed nature of the track.

[bauc]

Unless something remarkable happen, given the last couple of races, RedBull are on a league of their own in high-speed, let's hope this will change when you can setup to more of the high speed nature of the track.

Our advantage (at least with NOR) over RBR is tire life and Silverstone kills the tires due to the change of directions at the high speed sections and 2 hard braking zones, plus few moderate ones. I expect Max to be on pole and leading 2/3 of the race and then a close race till the end (in case we get incident free race)

[LionsHeart]

Then look at how Max defends. He constantly uses a late shift at the braking point, which is completely prohibited by the rules. This Verstappen rule was introduced in the second half of 2016. Further: even after a late shift to the side, Max already in the braking phase shifts towards Lando, no matter from which side Lando tries to pass Max. Such maneuvers can be called squeezing, blocking, etc., which completely blocks an alternative trajectory for Lando, so your words about multiple entry and exit points do not work when Max is holding the defense.

It is also interesting that the Verstappen rule was introduced because of Verstappen's own actions in 2016, when he squeezed many drivers and moved them under braking. And most importantly, everyone obeys this rule except Max himself.

This rule was dropped by the end of 2016: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-d ... 8/5019118/

Many refer to a rule that doesn't exist.

It's incredible that I don't remember this. Then it's clear why Max acts the way he does.

[BMMR61]

Lando could have "moved under braking" to avoid the collision. Does this mean then that Max didn't "cause the collision" or at least share the blame with Lando? NO! Technically "moving under braking" (changing your line or trajectory) is not permitted so Lando was actually obeying the so-called "Verstappen rule". But this wasn't the motivation by Lando. He decided to put a "line in the sand" and not back down. This is my opinion, please feel free to comment. I applaud him for not backing down, despite the uneven and unfair consequences. Max hasn't needed to use his '2021 tactics' for some time as far as I recall. Now his authority is being regularly challenged and, maybe, Lando is intent on holding his line, the contacts will become a more regular occurrence. Maybe, the stewards will be forced into action, maybe the FIA will be forced to make some tougher interpretations of the rules. Max has had serious contact with most of the top drivers during his career, more than anyone in this era.

Max does have some temperament weaknesses, or errors of judgement, among his incredible determination and ability. Even with three and a half wins worth of points gap and twelve weekends (plus 3 sprint races) to go, the fight could go pear-shaped quite suddenly. If Max cracks and starts to fall foul of the judiciary, anything is possible. Of course I don't want to see hollow victories, I jus hope Lando (and Oscar) are going to be able to really take the fight to Max in the next few months. Don't discard the possibility of Oscar joining the fight at the front, his comeback from P7 to P2 showed considerable skill and patience and two of the best passes of the season, he really deserved to inherit the win.

[mwillems]

But that's not the problem. The problem is the effectiveness of the DRS. Lando's top speed is at the bottom of the table. And that's with his constant attack with the inclusion of DRS and getting slipstream from Red Bull. If the top speed had been faster and higher, Lando would have easily passed Max long before the braking zone. This partly explains why Lando had to attack more aggressively in the braking zone, including divebombing.

As FittingMechanics says, I think the real problem was elsewhere. T3 was the main culprit and Max was dominant here, but also getting good exits elsewhere.

If you mean the main culprit in moving under braking then yes.

Norris wouldn't have had to make as big dive-bombs if the initial infraction of consistently moving under braking hadn't happened.

Makes me wish that Norris had done the same to Max in the sprint race and kept the lead there.

No we are just talking about the cars themselves now and the general performance over the race at the different points in the track.

But you may be right about Norris and the Dive bombs but at the same time, it was quite late that Lando was able to start the moves and that wasn't to do with moving under breaking, seemed to be car performance and the exit from 3 that affected the run down to 4. As was previously discussed, in part due to the lines Max was taking.

Incidentally, Max has come out afterwards and said he wasn't moving under braking, and that he was ensuring he pointed the car in its new direction before he broke!

He did move quite early for the incident, I didn't feel like that was what he was doing before the crash in the other attempts though but I can't recall.

[FittingMechanics]

Lando could have "moved under braking" to avoid the collision. Does this mean then that Max didn't "cause the collision" or at least share the blame with Lando? NO! Technically "moving under braking" (changing your line or trajectory) is not permitted so Lando was actually obeying the so-called "Verstappen rule". But this wasn't the motivation by Lando. He decided to put a "line in the sand" and not back down. This is my opinion, please feel free to comment. I applaud him for not backing down, despite the uneven and unfair consequences. Max hasn't needed to use his '2021 tactics' for some time as far as I recall. Now his authority is being regularly challenged and, maybe, Lando is intent on holding his line, the contacts will become a more regular occurrence. Maybe, the stewards will be forced into action, maybe the FIA will be forced to make some tougher interpretations of the rules. Max has had serious contact with most of the top drivers during his career, more than anyone in this era.

Max does have some temperament weaknesses, or errors of judgement, among his incredible determination and ability. Even with three and a half wins worth of points gap and twelve weekends (plus 3 sprint races) to go, the fight could go pear-shaped quite suddenly. If Max cracks and starts to fall foul of the judiciary, anything is possible. Of course I don't want to see hollow victories, I jus hope Lando (and Oscar) are going to be able to really take the fight to Max in the next few months. Don't discard the possibility of Oscar joining the fight at the front, his comeback from P7 to P2 showed considerable skill and patience and two of the best passes of the season, he really deserved to inherit the win.

I agree that Norris decided to hold his ground. He made a mistake of leaving the door open in sprint and he wasn't going to let this slide. In the helicopter shot you can clearly see that Norris is pointing straight at the edge of the track and that he is waiting for Verstappen to turn in. But Verstappen wants to block Norris so he veers to the left and tries to go as deep as possible (which is why they crashed). Good mindset by Norris and he should continue to stand his ground.

I would even suggest to start being very defensive if the situation is reversed. Especially if Verstappen repeats this (which I expect he will). Let's see if he wants to have a crash every race, especially with Piastri being around to reduce the gap to Red Bull.

About Max cracking, I don't think that will happen. He has a huge lead, great car, no competition from his teammate and plenty of experience fighting at the top level. What may happen is Hamilton type of complaints over the radio that his tires are gone or that there is something wrong with the car (while they are lapping faster than teammates).

But, I would love to see Norris start to win multiple times and to reduce that gap. Verstappen is already at the limit of his PU parts so he will probably get a penalty somewhere. With the smaller gaps this year it will be hard for him to storm through the field.

[venkyhere]

But this wasn't the motivation by Lando. He decided to put a "line in the sand" and not back down. This is my opinion, please feel free to comment. I applaud him for not backing down, despite the uneven and unfair consequences. Max hasn't needed to use his '2021 tactics' for some time as far as I recall. Now his authority is being regularly challenged and, maybe, Lando is intent on holding his line, the contacts will become a more regular occurrence.

We all agree that Lando scored a moral and philosophical victory in the battle of egos, stood his ground, didn't back off. But could he have been cleverer, so as not to risk an actual race victory ? I think that's the more important discussion. It's fairly well established Max has to be take blame for the accident. Apart from orangearmy and some diehard worshippers, and a few exceptions, no one else has doubts about that. But is it enough for a racing driver to ensure that he 'isn't in the wrong' ? Or does he need to look at the footage and learn whether he could have done something cleverer ? Most of us, scratch that, many of us want to see Lando win more races consistently, especially now when the car is very competent and obedient to him.

[Ground Effect]

Not to go too far off with the Lando vs Max thing, but I believe Max's driving style is a legacy of him only having 1 year of single seater racing before making the F1 leap, unlike guys like Lando, George, Charles and practically everybody else.
I hope we won't have a parts problem for Silverstone.

[FittingMechanics]

But this wasn't the motivation by Lando. He decided to put a "line in the sand" and not back down. This is my opinion, please feel free to comment. I applaud him for not backing down, despite the uneven and unfair consequences. Max hasn't needed to use his '2021 tactics' for some time as far as I recall. Now his authority is being regularly challenged and, maybe, Lando is intent on holding his line, the contacts will become a more regular occurrence.

We all agree that Lando scored a moral and philosophical victory in the battle of egos, stood his ground, didn't back off. But could he have been cleverer, so as not to risk an actual race victory ? I think that's the more important discussion. It's fairly well established Max has to be take blame for the accident. Apart from orangearmy and some diehard worshippers, and a few exceptions, no one else has doubts about that. But is it enough for a racing driver to ensure that he 'isn't in the wrong' ? Or does he need to look at the footage and learn whether he could have done something cleverer ? Most of us, scratch that, many of us want to see Lando win more races consistently, especially now when the car is very competent and obedient to him.

This went on for 10 laps.

Lando tried to go on the inside - Verstappen moves under brakes and blocks. This would probably be a clean overtake otherwise.
Lando divebombs and goes wide - let's him back.
Lando goes to the outside - Verstappen moves and blocks.
Lando tries to stay close - can't match Verstappen out of T3
Lando divebombs and makes the corner - Verstappen steams ahead on the runoff and doesn't return the position (didn't seem that stewards would react but it was 1 lap).
Lando gets Verstappen to defend the inside and pulls alongside in T3, Verstappen changes his line under brakes and hits Norris.

I think that Norris went out of his way to try and get around safely. The final incident cannot be taken out of context, it is a result of increasing defensive, reactionary moves by Verstappen that forced Norris into making riskier and later moves. I think what Norris did was absolutely right, hold his ground and let's see what happens. No one expected double puncture. It could have easily been a no contact or a light wheel bang and Norris sweeps around the outside.

One thing that Norris needs to look into is were there other opportunities for the overtake. Could he have stayed closed and then swept around on the straight? Whole situation happened because he couldn't get alongside on the straights. I am confident they will analyze this and try and learn from it. Just being in the right is not enough.

[AR3-GP]

delete

[Macklaren]

Trying to move on (I'm still so mad though!), do we know if there will be a biggish upgrade at Silverstone? Zak was hinting at something back in Spain...

[mclaren111]

[Darth-Piekus]

Any news about a new upgrade package for Silverstone?

[mwillems]

Then look at how Max defends. He constantly uses a late shift at the braking point, which is completely prohibited by the rules. This Verstappen rule was introduced in the second half of 2016. Further: even after a late shift to the side, Max already in the braking phase shifts towards Lando, no matter from which side Lando tries to pass Max. Such maneuvers can be called squeezing, blocking, etc., which completely blocks an alternative trajectory for Lando, so your words about multiple entry and exit points do not work when Max is holding the defense.

It is also interesting that the Verstappen rule was introduced because of Verstappen's own actions in 2016, when he squeezed many drivers and moved them under braking. And most importantly, everyone obeys this rule except Max himself.

This rule was dropped by the end of 2016: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-d ... 8/5019118/

Many refer to a rule that doesn't exist.

It's incredible that I don't remember this. Then it's clear why Max acts the way he does.

It wasn't dropped, it was move to a new rule that gives a wider scope for the stewards to make their own judgement, but in reality it got lost in a bigger more vague rule. But even so it was never policed consistently.

Somebody who must watch F1 with one eye shut was vocal about Outcomes of investigations not being a determining factor in penalties. But as Carlos Sainz said a few weeks back, if their isn't contact or damage, a lot of the time it will be ignored by the Stewards and an investigation will result in no further action.

As I said previously, I don't blame the stewards for not trying to change the direction of F1s stewarding and rules. It is the FIA and Liberty that need to do something. But I doubt they will.

[MormegilRS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRe1Kiub0AA ... ame=medium

Was it not just the DRS, but also the fact that Verstappen had used mediums compared to new mediums for Norris which made the McLaren faster?