McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[Pup]

Yah. Well, I suppose in an ideal world you're maximizing front downforce because in an ideal world you've always got maximum rear downforce. But the real world ain't ideal, so the front wing's got two jobs to do and it's that pesky trade off that causes so much consternation up and down the pit lane. Thus the Woking boys' problem of not being able to crank on enough front wing without effing up the airflow to the rear, leaving poor Jens having to pilot a car that's either all slippery in the front or all slippery all over, and thus the quest to widen the operating range of the wing. I guess that's too difficult a concept for the bbc to convey in a three minute segment. Wait, no it isn't. I'm with you guys - it's gotta be the suspension.

Sarcasm!!!

Anyway, I do look forward to a new front wing if only so those who said it's too simple can - rightfully so I must think - claim whatever honors come with that sort of thing. Not that simple is bad. Underdeveloped is bad. Actually, I look forward to it more so I can claim that Jenson, through his, let's just go ahead and say magical setup abilities, has, yes, unlocked the beast that is the mp4-28.

Sarcasm!!!

[JimClarkFan]

Yah. Well, I suppose in an ideal world you're maximizing front downforce because in an ideal world you've always got maximum rear downforce. But the real world ain't ideal, so the front wing's got two jobs to do and it's that pesky trade off that causes so much consternation up and down the pit lane. Thus the Woking boys' problem of not being able to crank on enough front wing without effing up the airflow to the rear, leaving poor Jens having to pilot a car that's either all slippery in the front or all slippery all over, and thus the quest to widen the operating range of the wing. I guess that's too difficult a concept for the bbc to convey in a three minute segment. Wait, no it isn't. I'm with you guys - it's gotta be the suspension.

Sarcasm!!!

Anyway, I do look forward to a new front wing if only so those who said it's too simple can - rightfully so I must think - claim whatever honors come with that sort of thing. Not that simple is bad. Underdeveloped is bad. Actually, I look forward to it more so I can claim that Jenson, through his, let's just go ahead and say magical setup abilities, has, yes, unlocked the beast that is the mp4-28.

Sarcasm!!!

I think the reason why everyone seems to be saying suspension is because of the complaints by button, and whitmarsh about the ride. They have not elaborated on what specifically they meant by that though. Added to that Whitmarsh had said that they had wrongly installed a suspension element which meant they could run the car very low, too low to be beneficial on certain tracks though.

The point is there are reasons why people are saying its the suspension, though I know nothing about F1 design I can see why they might point to the suspension as being a factor.

On the flip side of that, everyone said that the suspension on the Ferrari last year was the problem too, which in hindsight doesn't appear to be the case because they have a similar suspension this year but their ride was never mentioned as a problem, at least no that I can remember.

Either way I want them to fix this car soon, I'm a big fan of Button and it pains me to see them strugglying with a car that was promised to deliver much!

[henra]

The car seems to have nice flow to the coke-bottle area which should mean good DF at the rear. Maybe the rear tire issue is mechanical related rather than aero!?

Hmmm, Looking at all the pictures of the MP4-28 I have some difficulties sharing this point of view.
To me the coke bottle looks a tad too obstructed/bulky for a very high nose/McLaren Bulge design.
If you compare it to the Ferrari you will notice how much more open space/aggressive coke bottle the Ferrari has. Which makes perfect sense for an aggressive high nose design.
Or you go the Red Bull/Lotus route with a lower nose and more air going over the sidepods and the ramp towards the diffuser while the air from underneath the nose just feeds the underbody flow and the tunnel flow to the starter motor hole.
In this approach you don't have use for too much flow around the sides of the sidepods as the inward flow at the back would mess up your blowing of the diffuser and the tunnels can only take so much air. Feeding more will just increase drag and cross flows.
The McLaren leaves me a bit puzzled as it follows neither route really consequentially. Pretty high nose but too much blockage of the inward flow at the back of the sidepods. The sidepods have rather massive straight flanges which will not help the air moving inwards behind the sidepods either. At the same time no ramp that leads clean air to the diffuser.
I would not be too surprised to see new sidepods on this car in a few races.

[i70q7m7ghw]

http://formula1.com/wi/enlarge/sutton/2 ... mar288.jpg

Is that the starter motor hole? That's pretty impressive, the whole tail end of the coke bottle must be complete lifted up from the floor & diffuser...

Pull-rod looks bulky, is that an adjuster? Quite a contrast from the skinny Red Bull pull-rod & adjustment shims.

[CjC]

Henra- Perez said that mclaren are planning/ bringing a big update to Barcelona, I know all the major team will be doing the same but considering the position mclaren are in you'd suspect they have more scope for improvement than most of the others. I too think new side pods are a potential upgrade in the next few races

[Pup]

Despite the results, it does look like they made some improvements over the weekend. The fact that the car didn't do relatively better on the inters this weekend compared to last lends a lot of support to the rumor about McLaren missing the boat on the new shape of the pirelli slicks. Since their experiment in taking the jigsaw to the floor seems to have worked, I guess we're likely to see a new floor for China if not Bahrain. Perhaps some wing adjustments as well.

[EddieIrvine99]

I always used to think that running less wing is a sign of a good downforce-car package, because you could achieve the ideal downforce for a given circuit with no drug penalty...Gary Anderson said in this video something different, maybe nowadays this idea only stands for the rear wing

[JimClarkFan]

Despite the results, it does look like they made some improvements over the weekend. The fact that the car didn't do relatively better on the inters this weekend compared to last lends a lot of support to the rumor about McLaren missing the boat on the new shape of the pirelli slicks. Since their experiment in taking the jigsaw to the floor seems to have worked, I guess we're likely to see a new floor for China if not Bahrain. Perhaps some wing adjustments as well.

They did appear to be fast, my gut says somewhere close to half a second fast but I haven't seen any numbers to confirm this.

[Coefficient]

The car is going to improve a lot soon imho. They really looked a lot better this weekend and with JB on a 3 stop could've jumped the ailing Mercs if not for the finger trouble in the pits. I realise they would have come back at him on fresh rubber but we also know they were marginal on fuel so a podium was a genuine possibility yesterday.

[Gee]

Since their experiment in taking the jigsaw to the floor seems to have worked

Do you mean they were cutting bits off the floor? Where did you see this? Cheers

[Pup]

Since their experiment in taking the jigsaw to the floor seems to have worked

Do you mean they were cutting bits off the floor? Where did you see this? Cheers

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... 01500.html

[Pup]

I have to say that the "tire shape" problem sounds familiar. Hasn't this issue come up before with McLaren?

[BorisTheBlade]

I always used to think that running less wing is a sign of a good downforce-car package, because you could achieve the ideal downforce for a given circuit with no drug penalty...Gary Anderson said in this video something different, maybe nowadays this idea only stands for the rear wing

Well, with the current rules it's impossible to get aero balance right without heavy usage of the front wing as the kink of the diffusor is not really where you want your center of aero weight distribution.
So yes, RedBull's impressive (lack of) AoA on the rearwing at AUS showed how efficient their whole concept seems to be.

[bhall]

I have to say that the "tire shape" problem sounds familiar. Hasn't this issue come up before with McLaren?

I remember Ferrari was caught out by the slight profile change of the tires in 2011, because it altered the efficiency of their front wing.

[KingHamilton01]

So is there anyone with a good knowledge of wind tunnel`s and simulator`s that can tell me how quickly McLaren can make part`s for the mp4-28? is it logical to think within the space of 3 week`s McLaren are going to make big change`s to there car? or concentrate on a single area race by race to eliminate problem`s? here is what they could possibly bring to china in my opinion and I would like to hear your opinion`s please.

New Front wing(Multi-element)
New Exhaust with ramp/tunnel(Like Redbull)
New Rear Wing
New Floor
new Side-pod design
New diffusor