Engine Unfreeze

[mrluke]

Honda isn't happy with the compromise because Mercedes changed their plans after the ruling for Honda.Now Mercedes is going to use most of their tokens before the season starts and that will take about 8 tokens away from Honda to upgrade their engine during the season.So Honda went from around 16 to 8.

Well played Mercedes.

[Gaara]

Please someone can explain this to me?

Can teams use 2015 PU in Australia and still be able to develop them? If yes, then why some teams talking about using 2014 version in the first few rounds?

[Paul]

Because if they change a part now and then change the same part again a few rounds later it will cost twice as many tokens than starting with the old spec and then changing it when they are totally satisfied with the outcome.

[KeiKo403]

Not sure where to put this....and it's entirely possible I'm wrong as I'm not an engine guy but.....aren't the engines limited to 15,000rpm?

1 piston (not a valve)
a beat - Up & Down stroke
300 beats a second
300x60 beats a minute
300x60=18,000rpm.

[damager21]

Please someone can explain this to me?

Can teams use 2015 PU in Australia and still be able to develop them? If yes, then why some teams talking about using 2014 version in the first few rounds?

Each engine manufacturer viz. Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault have 32 tokens available. With each token, they can change one of the 66 parts allowed by FIA in the 2014 engine.

As per the current rules, an engine manufacturer can use X number of tokens - lets say 10 tokens to change 10 parts in the 2014 engine. It can then homologate this engine with FIA and introduce it at the first race. What this means is that till of end of the season this engine manufacturer will have balance 22 tokens using which it can introduce engine upgrades.

Alternatively, a engine manufacturer may decide to start the season with 2014 engine and use 32 tokens to introduce upgrades as and when they wish to.

[Moose]

Not sure where to put this....and it's entirely possible I'm wrong as I'm not an engine guy but.....aren't the engines limited to 15,000rpm?

1 piston (not a valve)
a beat - Up & Down stroke
300 beats a second
300x60 beats a minute
300x60=18,000rpm.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8G55wACEAEedBI.jpg

The engine beats much more than once per revolution. A 4 stroke V6 has 3 explosions (beats?) per revolution. That said, that maths doesn't add up very well either.

[KeiKo403]

but they have said piston. not pistons.

[Gaara]

Please someone can explain this to me?

Can teams use 2015 PU in Australia and still be able to develop them? If yes, then why some teams talking about using 2014 version in the first few rounds?

Each engine manufacturer viz. Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault have 32 tokens available. With each token, they can change one of the 66 parts allowed by FIA in the 2014 engine.

As per the current rules, an engine manufacturer can use X number of tokens - lets say 10 tokens to change 10 parts in the 2014 engine. It can then homologate this engine with FIA and introduce it at the first race. What this means is that till of end of the season this engine manufacturer will have balance 22 tokens using which it can introduce engine upgrades.

Alternatively, a engine manufacturer may decide to start the season with 2014 engine and use 32 tokens to introduce upgrades as and when they wish to.

Thanks. So basically can they use the 2015 spec engine in the first rounds and still develop it using the remaining tokens?

[Manoah2u]

Please someone can explain this to me?

Can teams use 2015 PU in Australia and still be able to develop them? If yes, then why some teams talking about using 2014 version in the first few rounds?

Each engine manufacturer viz. Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault have 32 tokens available. With each token, they can change one of the 66 parts allowed by FIA in the 2014 engine.

As per the current rules, an engine manufacturer can use X number of tokens - lets say 10 tokens to change 10 parts in the 2014 engine. It can then homologate this engine with FIA and introduce it at the first race. What this means is that till of end of the season this engine manufacturer will have balance 22 tokens using which it can introduce engine upgrades.

Alternatively, a engine manufacturer may decide to start the season with 2014 engine and use 32 tokens to introduce upgrades as and when they wish to.

Thanks. So basically can they use the 2015 spec engine in the first rounds and still develop it using the remaining tokens?

basically no, because that would be the 2015 spec engine.

We're talking still the 2014 engine here.

That would mean, use the 2014 engine @ melbourne, and use 32 tokens to upgrade as and when they wish to during the season.

[Paul]

I don't think so, as far as I understand there is no single 2015 spec engine, new engines can be homologated multiple times during the season. So they can use x<32 tokens, start with that engine and then use 32-x tokens during the season for performance upgrades. Or use all 32 tokens before the season starts and then only be able to implement special dispensation reliability upgrades until 2016, like it seems was originally intended.

[CBeck113]

Not sure where to put this....and it's entirely possible I'm wrong as I'm not an engine guy but.....aren't the engines limited to 15,000rpm?

1 piston (not a valve)
a beat - Up & Down stroke
300 beats a second
300x60 beats a minute
300x60=18,000rpm.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8G55wACEAEedBI.jpg

The engine beats much more than once per revolution. A 4 stroke V6 has 3 explosions (beats?) per revolution. That said, that maths doesn't add up very well either.

Unless they consider a beat to be a combustion (every second stroke), then they did a bit of rounding and will run at about 9000rpm - which may be very strange, since they couldn't use the full fuel flow at that engine speed (peak power should be at around the 10500rpm & 100kg/h point).

[iotar__]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117470
Enigines: Green (FI) expecting better one in the beginning and one more step in in middle of the season. Carter (Lotus) expecting Ferrari and Renault to make changes later during the season = early Merc advantage. Guess who really needed change of rules without a reason or legal foundation.

[FoxHound]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117470
Enigines: Green (FI) expecting better one in the beginning and one more step in in middle of the season. Carter (Lotus) expecting Ferrari and Renault to make changes later during the season = early Merc advantage. Guess who really needed change of rules without a reason or legal foundation.

I'm guessing you are going to enlighten us.

[PlatinumZealot]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117470
Enigines: Green (FI) expecting better one in the beginning and one more step in in middle of the season. Carter (Lotus) expecting Ferrari and Renault to make changes later during the season = early Merc advantage. Guess who really needed change of rules without a reason or legal foundation.

But, but, but, didn't Abiteboul just say that Renault are using all of their tokens to open the season?

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3211 ... s-in-2015/

"We hope to close this gap by half at the start of the season in Melbourne. Unlike Mercedes, we will start the 2015 season with the 2015 version of our engine.

"To date, we have used about two-thirds of allowed [32] tokens to change our engine this year.

"My goal is to claim at least five wins this season."

[turbof1]

Well, what defines a 2015 engine? Could be just as well a 2014 engine with 1 2015 token.

They'll use around 21-22 tokens before the start of the season.

Interesting btw that he calls it engine, and not power unit. Either he's making the same common mistake most of us fans do, or the tokens are mostly focussed on the ICE.