Saving F1 - the new approach?

[Cam]

I'm putting up contrary views to yours. That's part of how a discussion between mature adults works. Aren't you able to defend your position or do you think that merely stating your position is enough? So far, all I'm hearing from you is a load of "I don't like F1 as it is so here are my knee-jerk ideas".

And since you ask, I rather like F1 as it is, so see no need to make radical changes.

Oh, and don't call me mate. Thanks.

I've hit a nerve with you, for that I apologise. You've taken this quite personally and that's not the goal of these discussions. I've continually stated that my opinions and topics are controversial, however my heart is in the right place - which is to ensure F1 is around for all of us to enjoy for many years to come. Ideas are just that and don't have to become a reality.

Personally, I feel you view of 'nothing is wrong with F1' is off the mark and could show evidence where reducing costs, reducing boredom etc are all hot topics in F1 right now - but you're right, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

I will continue to offer up ideas in this thread and so far, I've really enjoyed the ideas and concepts people have put forward. There's a lot of very clever people here who, although they may think nothing is wrong with the sport, they still offer up solutions - which is what this actually thread is all about (we're not debating if F1 should be changed, just options that 'could' help F1). Towards that, I'll not again reply comment to you using my perceived negative approach I think you have and I'll just accept it for what it is - I hope you'll extend me the same courtesy.

[bhall]

In JaF's defense, and partially my own for that other thread, these discussions pop up every few months around here, and you end up seeing a ton of mostly arbitrary ideas being bandied about - often for the fourth or fifth time - that reflect people's tastes rather than reality.

That's mostly the reason why I don't have any ideas for the sport other than to say it probably needs to look further over the horizon than it usually does.

[Cam]

In JaF's defense, and partially my own for that other thread, these discussions pop up every few months around here, and you end up seeing a ton of mostly arbitrary ideas being bandied about - often for the fourth or fifth time - that reflect people's tastes rather than reality.

That's mostly the reason why I don't have any ideas for the sport other than to say it probably needs to look further over the horizon than it usually does.

bhallg2k - you've often subscribed to very passionate debate, which is exactly what F1 needs. If people like you give up then all is lost. I think the general consensus is some changes need to occur for F1 - the teams admit this, but they're unsure of the path to take. By having forums likes this, it gives them credible content to read and digest. Now, I'm sure some of them read these stuff and laugh out loud, and why wouldn't they, there's some weird and fanciful stuff flying around, but in-between that, there's some gold and my hope is they see that gold and at least consider it. So now's not the time to not have an opinion, especially if you have some good ideas to put forward.

It's not easy for me to accept people who critique without offering other possible concepts - that's my bait and I struggle to not take it.

I'd love to see your list bhallg2k. What would you like to see happen?

[Just_a_fan]

Personally, I feel you view of 'nothing is wrong with F1' is off the mark and could show evidence where reducing costs, reducing boredom etc are all hot topics in F1 right now - but you're right, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

I agree that costs need to be reduced but I think we need to look elsewhere than the technical rules to do so. If you change the technical issues of F1 by introducing a whole raft of new rules and systems then the one thing you are guaranteed to do is increase costs.

Costs can be reduced elsewhere in F1 before we hit the technical side of things. See my other post on this issue.

And I'm amazed that F1 can be considered boring these days: I've watched F1 for over 20 years and I can say that the racing in the last couple of years has been anything other than boring. Sure, some of the "fun" is due to tyres that were designed to spice up the racing, but that is no different to changing technical rules to make the racing closer. Anything that is introduced to make the racing more exciting is, by its nature, artificial whether it's tyres or limitations in aero.

I have no problem with a discussion about where F1 might go, but I've yet to hear any ideas that really move the game on rather than just changing one set of artificial constraints for another. And that just strikes me as change for change sake.

Now, I'd vote for more use of KERS - I see it as a system that allows the driver to make tactical decisions over a lap in order to effect an overtake. That's good racing and it needs very little to be changed in the rules or the cars to bring it to fruition. For those who insist on road relevance it has that too. The same can be said of HERS. I'd also like to see active aero - again road relevant and already being seen on road cars. A system that allows the cars to shed downforce and thus drag on the straights whilst still keeping F1's world leading cornering and braking ability. It will give worthwhile improvements in fuel economy too. So that's a good headline right there. And a suitable active system would also help drivers stay close in corners which would help overtaking so the people who want close racing would be catered for. Of course, those who don't like anything aero-related won't like it...

Are those positive enough contributions?

[bhall]

What would you like to see happen?

My lone idea isn't technical at all, but I think it addresses a fundamental problem within F1.

I'd like to see Ecclestone thanked for his considerable contributions to the sport and then expeditiously shown to the door in favor of an ownership group - be it the teams themselves or someone/something else - that can somehow manage to refrain from making quick cash grabs at the expense of long-term sustainability. I couldn't possibly care less about how much money teams spend one way or the other, but it's absolutely outrageous that everyday fans are becoming increasingly marginalized by F1's constant movement toward bigger paydays.

It seems that someone has forgotten that without fans F1 cannot exist.

I can't even wrap my head around the fact that Spa, arguably the most popular race amongst both drivers and fans alike, is going to have to rotate in and out of the calendar with France, the home of grand prix racing, because neither can afford FOM's fees on a yearly basis. Yet, at the same time, F1 will continue to make annual trips to race in front of empty stands in places like Bahrain and China and to a dozen other circuits that are all but guaranteed to lose money because of F1.

Inevitably F1 will price itself out of the reach of fans, or forsake them completely in favor of alien markets, and those fans will turn their backs on F1. Then what happens to the sport? Who wants to sponsor or participate in something that no one watches?

I'd like to see a more egalitarian approach taken with regard to F1's business dealings. Circuits should pay less so that tickets can be cheaper. Television and other media rights fees should be cheaper so that F1 can be entirely free-to-air. Yes, this means less money for F1 and the teams, but not only is it the "right" thing to do, it solidifies F1's future, which, in the long run, is the road toward the most money.

This strategy might even urge teams to voluntarily curtail some of their own spending due to diminished immediate returns on their investment.

Of course there's little chance this will ever happen. But it would be my wish for the F1 genie.

[Cam]

Awesome so far. Here's a re-cap of the some good points (apologies if I didn't include yours or have misrepresented it). There's some absolutely great ideas here, cheap, easy to setup and would improve the show and racing straight away.

Keep the ideas coming!

• engine Efficiency Ratio
• getting manufacturers back in
• Any body shape is possible as long it remains within maximum set dimensions.
• The one change to keep f1 alive is keeping the cars that they run relevant to the cars that we drive.
• you are allowed 'X' amount of kJ per race
• Track design
• KERS would be not only be more powerful (100kw plus), but a driver should have 5 or 10 minutes worth to be used at anytime he chooses.
• No pit-car radio whilst the race is on.
• 2 different routes. One would suit speed, the other handling
• mistakes are punished.
• Standard FIA off the shelf 1.5 litre naturally aspirated engine (or free 1.5 NA engines)
• Totally free energy recovery systems and electrical power systems
• ground effect
• Draft system? Both for drivers and technology.
• more free mechanical development.
• fuel flow rate should be specified
• F1 needs proper management.
• Monstrous budgets should be limited.
• Homologate some technology for a limited production run of series cars
• Limit fuel usage per race. Each year the figure should drop 5%.
• Banish aero reliance.
• Allow teams to select which compounds of tyres they bring to each race
• Scrap moveable aero and police flexible aero by measuring suspension loads over the range of car speeds
• Choose x races each year where the teams are able to test on the Monday following the GP event.
• Return to steel brake discs to increase braking distances.
• The car is divided up into sections, e.g. engine, gearbox, KERS, steering system, front suspension, rear suspension, chassis, front wing, rear wing, etc. The FIA sets a price for each component so that a team could buy the entire Red Bull car (or any other car) for $300m (or any other arbitrary price) per annum but is limited to buying at most two components.
• wresting ownership from the suits at CVC
• The way id like to save F1 is via introducing budget caps, initially to €250m for two years, then reducing by €30m for 2 years to €190m and then by a futher €20m for another 2 years Ideal budget for a F1 team should be €150m in my opinion. Id also make it that power train manufacturers have a budget of half of that of a F1 team, initially €125m a year for 2 years then reduce it by €7.5m for 2 years then by €5m for a futher 2, ideal budget of arround €100m a year for engine manufacturers.
• however when it comes to races, teams can take 60 mechanichal, technichal or data personel to each race, however each person is limited to 12 hours at the track each day and must only work for 3 out of 4 days at a track (4 out of 5 at Monaco).
• teams would have to have no more than 8 on the pit wall
• new entry has to have at least 5 years expeience in GP2, GP2 or WSR3.5, have the money avalable for the first 3 years in the sport. However id also make it that teams would have to have a minimum budget of 40% of the top budget to compete.
• The Promotors would all pay the same for each event that year, so €25m a year for a race would rake in €500m for the rights holder, Id also make it a 5% year on year increase for the promotors of the races, whitch is decent enough.
• it could afford to split it 40% to the teams
• active aero

[Cam]

Of course there's little chance this will ever happen. But it would be my wish for the F1 genie.

Cheers bhall2gk. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the management is a key issue. Fix that a lot of other things will fall into place. How do we 'nudge' that into happening? What needs to take place for that to occur?

[bhall]

There's nothing to nudge. It simply won't happen.

Trying to get Bernie Ecclestone to take less money is like trying to get Bernie Ecclestone to take less money. You'd have more luck getting water from a rock.

FOM's fees are so skewed that they have absolutely nothing to do with race attendance or TV viewing figures. That blows my mind.

[Slife]

While I don't disagree with the OP, I imagine if the suggestions were implemented we would end with something like the Cyber Formula cartoon series.

[Red Schneider]

I'm actually quite a purist regarding this whole matter. I blame the overly dramatic thread title for activating my hero complex. "Don't worry F1, I'll save you!" Etc, etc.

[Cam]

While I don't disagree with the OP, I imagine if the suggestions were implemented we would end with something like the Cyber Formula cartoon series.

LOL that's awesome. You can see the F1 inspiration in there and yes, I suppose of a free reign, unlimited cash and pixel based drivers were available, we could quite easily see this.

Nice find on the pic! =D>

[Cam]

After all this is entertainment. How road relevant is Nascar anyway?

Quite relevant and the future is even more so. Read this article on the future of NASCAR:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1074 ... ars-future

NASCAR is certainly trying to ensure viewers join the dots between race car and home car. Whether F1 is, should, or needs to be relevant to the domestic market is a good question. Personally, I think it will help them financially to go down this road more. If nothing else it open up options. And in a tough climate, options are good.

[SeijaKessen]

There's nothing to nudge. It simply won't happen.

Trying to get Bernie Ecclestone to take less money is like trying to get Bernie Ecclestone to take less money. You'd have more luck getting water from a rock.

FOM's fees are so skewed that they have absolutely nothing to do with race attendance or TV viewing figures. That blows my mind.

I have a bottle of Moet around that I will pop open and spray around when Bernie dies.

[Red Schneider]

Just remember he is in large part responsible for making F1 the global colossus it is. I think we're overdue for a change in structure at the top but his strong-arming has been pretty good for the sport since about 1980 or so.

[SeijaKessen]

Just remember he is in large part responsible for making F1 the global colossus it is. I think we're overdue for a change in structure at the top but his strong-arming has been pretty good for the sport since about 1980 or so.

It's become a detriment at this point.

I can appreciate the growth F1 experienced, but it's now come with too high of a price...no pun intended.