2017 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 6-8 October

[iotar__]

Speaking of one driver team and mysteries like Malaysia :
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... an-961549/

Hamilton said in the wake of the Sepang race he had a clear idea of the set-up direction Mercedes needed to take in Japan, but added on Thursday he was still struggling to predict what he could expect from his W08 prior to most weekends.
...
"It's important to always challenge each other. As a driver I'm always challenging them.
"They'll have numbers that will give this and I'll still challenge it even if it's a perfect result because the perfect number doesn't always necessarily feel the greatest on track.

If it doesn't work you can always blame it on vegan diet, "Lewis Hamilton: Could a vegan diet hamper his 'racing edge'?" http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41416402 This is the level of F1 coverage.

[WaikeCU]

Well this is a back to back race weekend. So the team travels directly to Japan from Malaysia I suppose to acclimatize the environment. I don't think Lewis had any time in between to really test the simulator with the latest updates who seem to have produce different performance than expected. I think that's also a reason why Lewis doesn't really have the idea what the outcome will be if they decide to go with the new updates. Simply a bad timing with this.

Either the car will be seriously fast in the hands of Lewis or it will be damage limitations just like in Malaysia. I think it's the latter. Wet FP's and Quali and then totally different circumstances with a dry race. I think Lewis might have the upperhand in the wet, but on Sunday I think Ferrari and Red Bull can go faster.

[sosic2121]

Bottas said that the package was not working. For some reason he used it but not Lewis.

If it was Ferrari, Hamilton fans would quickly explain to us that Ferrari did it so Vettel would end up in front of Kimi.

But since this is Mercedes, most unbias team in history of F1, no one can understand what really happened...

[Phil]

As far as I understand, the updates worked in the sense that it delivered what the technicians believed it would. What however went wrong is that the tires failed to work, which could be due to all sorts of other reasons - from the design of the car, the set-up, suspension, the driving style of the driver etc. But from the upgrades perspective, they apparently were good.

[SiLo]

It made sense to give Hamilton the older package that he would be comfortable with. Just being more comfortable can make for a huge difference to overall speed of driver+car.

Plus they could see the differences between the two packages, effectively treating the race as a test at the same time.

[cooken]

Forgive me, but is this the Malaysia or Japanese GP thread? I reckon they'll both be on the new aero at least initially for data gathering, but would it maybe make sense to hold off on that discussion until... there's actually something to discuss? Tomorrow should be interesting with so many unknowns! Should see a decent amount of running too if qualy is expected to be wet.

[Vasconia]

Bottas said that the package was not working. For some reason he used it but not Lewis.

If it was Ferrari, Hamilton fans would quickly explain to us that Ferrari did it so Vettel would end up in front of Kimi.

But since this is Mercedes, most unbias team in history of F1, no one can understand what really happened...

I have no problems with team orders in certains cases. Lewis is leading the championship and there were big doubts about the new package, so the second driver used this package. Bottas has accepted this role, I guess everyone is happy.

[TAG]

Bottas said that the package was not working. For some reason he used it but not Lewis.

If it was Ferrari, Hamilton fans would quickly explain to us that Ferrari did it so Vettel would end up in front of Kimi.

But since this is Mercedes, most unbias team in history of F1, no one can understand what really happened...

I have no problems with team orders in certains cases. Lewis is leading the championship and there were big doubts about the new package, so the second driver used this package. Bottas has accepted this role, I guess everyone is happy.

I think it was Lewis that didn't accept the new package and Bottas was happy with it. They went their separate ways based on feel. For Japan, Lewis is still saying he needs the team to convince him the new package is the way to go. Don't think team orders had anything to do with it.

Once it went sideways for them, I don't doubt for one second that the focus shifted to have Bottas simply gather data and make his car wide when Vettel passed by. Just racing.

[foxmulder_ms]

Bottas said that the package was not working. For some reason he used it but not Lewis.

If it was Ferrari, Hamilton fans would quickly explain to us that Ferrari did it so Vettel would end up in front of Kimi.

But since this is Mercedes, most unbias team in history of F1, no one can understand what really happened...

You think you are being sarcastic but ironically your are telling the truth. In Ferrari, rosberg could not have win any race but he won a championship in Merc.

[PlatinumZealot]

But it was. And Haminton said it was better and wanted to use it, but thought better of it since it would be too risky to take his car part to put on the upgrad so close to qualifying. Another interesting thing is that Bottas had a hybrid setup. He was unhappy with the new aero and new chassis setting so he decided to use Hamilton's old chassis settings with the new aero and it went horribly wrong
for as himyou can see. And when since Bottas became a benchmark for upgrades? Lol

You all need to get you emotions aside.. Forget about the diva tendencies (both car and Bottas!) the data showed it is a worthy upgrade and they will be using it here in Suzuka.

Hamilton doesn't share your confidence...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... an-961549/

I quoted him from Malaysia!
For Suzuka he is just a bit weary of the package on heavy fuel. He did not get any heavy fuel running with the new package in Malaysia. And Suzuka will have rain on Friday. You guys need to pay more attention man

[banjo789]

Do you know that Ferrari has followed Mercedes in building its gearbox with an external skin which supports the rear suspensions and an internal case which contains the mechanisms. The broken "gearbox" is the external one which can replaced without any penalità (this design is born to allow suspensions redesign without incurring in penalities).

but unfortunately, in the rear suspension, there is also the drive shaft that goes from the hub into the gearbox, and can transmit the impact right through the "external skin", so it not that simple

My thoughts would be that universal joint (yoke) failed that connects the output from the internal cassette of the gearbox with the driveshaft to the hub. If the impact induced a vertical motion of the rear wheel, then the assembly would be in tension and probably pulled itself out and away from the rear diff. Can Ferrrari get away with changing the rear diff without penalty if it were damaged or is this classed as part of the gearbox?

[ChrisDanger]

My thoughts would be that universal joint (yoke) failed that connects the output from the internal cassette of the gearbox with the driveshaft to the hub. If the impact induced a vertical motion of the rear wheel, then the assembly would be in tension and probably pulled itself out and away from the rear diff. Can Ferrrari get away with changing the rear diff without penalty if it were damaged or is this classed as part of the gearbox?

The differential is most certainly part of the drive line as defined in 9.5.1 here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26720&start=60#p721876

[godlameroso]

Maybe the shaft sheared without damaging the gearbox, so it's a question of simply fitting a new axle shaft and use a new case for the transmission.

I still think this track will suit Mercedes, it's a downforce heavy track, but it needs good aero efficiency. The weather doesn't matter as Spain showed, the Red Bulls are certainly a match for Ferrari and Mercedes in the race now, but not in qualifying. It's so close though that whoever has track position can generally keep it unless they make a mistake. It's too close to call, I want Ferrari to do well around here, but I don't think it's likely.

[F1NAC]

IMO Nobody was going to match that Ferrari in Malaysia if they started where they were supposed to..

[Schuttelberg]

It's amazing how Mercedes through their PR tirade manage to fool the audience season in and season out.

Once again, Friday will be a struggle and then WHAM! Pole Position by 2-3 tenths at least.

Then, Lewis will control the pace and finish 3-7 seconds ahead of a RBR/Ferrari and Mercedes will tell us how close this battle is!

For any logical Formula 1 fan, seeing how Silverstone and Spa went, this should be a walk in the park for Mercedes. I actually did expect Malaysia to be close, not because of the Ferrari/RBR but because of the hot temps. The Merc tends to struggle in those temps with the soft compounds.

Also, I feel Lewis could have won Malaysia. It's his championship situation that prevented his racing instincts. The 'derates' didn't help either.