2018 Haas F1 Team - Ferrari

[godlameroso]

Both Haas and Sauber have last year's Ferrari diffuser. But Haas has better less cluttered aero, so theirs work better, as the diffuser is fed by flow fields upstream.

So then they pretty much have a clone of the Ferrari from last year sans the main chassis from Dallara?!

Just the diffuser it seems, the rest of the bodywork is Haas. Then again anyone else could copy the Ferrari diffuser, it's a very good design.

[Raleigh]

Mmmmh, but Ferrari does not develop its 2017 car anymore, I heard they now focus on their 2018 carso dallara is now on their own to find optimizations for their chassis. Last year did this not prove all too succesfull, they started strong, faded away, had a short return (I believe when the engine received an HP update) and then faded away more.

I know the common accusation is that Haas runs last year’s Ferrari but really the car is closer to the 2018 challenger, sharing the wheelbase, engine, gearbox, suspension, Halo etc.

In fact the Haas is a SF71H that hasn’t evolved as far from the SF70H and ideas developed for the Ferrari could more or less be bolted onto the Haas (of course, individual parts may be dependent on each other, so Dallara cannot simply clone the 2018 Ferrari bargeboards for example and expect them to work alone).

What design work Dallara does during the season is figuring out how much current Ferrari development they can bring to the car within the budget given to them by Haas.

[Rodak]

Yeah, does that mean the left hand wrenches we're on the right hand side of the car? (because the thread on both sides differ so that the turn of the wheel makes the nuts get tighter instead of looser) ......

I'm doubtful they use left and right hand threads for the wheel nuts. The nut is so small there would be very little force to loosen it, this would add a complexity and failure path during wheel changes, a reversed nut wouldn't even start let alone go on, and there are safety catches to prevent loosening. If you can show me some reference to this it would be appreciated.

[Sieper]

Hello Both Rodak and Raleigh, I was not accusing Haas, just a misconception on my part, thanks for the input. I thought it looked very similar to the 2017 and thought to have heared during the TV airing on ziggo here that it is allowed to get/copies last year chassis from other teams.

I was also unaware of how the wheelguns work, I thought they had differing thread on both sides of the car but your explanation makes clear that is not the case and indeed that is also very much less error prone in this way, which is what you want, simplicity as the pressure on the pit crew is already enormous so a mistake can happen very quickly (like we saw last weekend).

[johnny comelately]

Yeah, does that mean the left hand wrenches we're on the right hand side of the car? (because the thread on both sides differ so that the turn of the wheel makes the nuts get tighter instead of looser) ......

I'm doubtful they use left and right hand threads for the wheel nuts. The nut is so small there would be very little force to loosen it, this would add a complexity and failure path during wheel changes, a reversed nut wouldn't even start let alone go on, and there are safety catches to prevent loosening. If you can show me some reference to this it would be appreciated.

They do, left for right and right for left. dynamic torque and all that

[johnny comelately]

what has happened with wheelnutgate?
todays (continuing) news about being ferrari clone seems to be a red herring

[bonjon1979]

what has happened with wheelnutgate?
todays (continuing) news about being ferrari clone seems to be a red herring

Eh? Please tell me we haven't got any conspiracy theorists on this hallowed forum suggesting that the wheel nut thing was a ploy to gift the win for Vettel.

[johnny comelately]

what has happened with wheelnutgate?
todays (continuing) news about being ferrari clone seems to be a red herring

Eh? Please tell me we haven't got any conspiracy theorists on this hallowed forum suggesting that the wheel nut thing was a ploy to gift the win for Vettel.

Sorry but I have to tell you I am , it makes life interesting.
Anyhow could you tell me how you think the wheel nut got cross threaded (maybe the frequency statistics), and then it happening again just a few minutes later .
I can see if there was a mechanical cause that it could then duplicate, but what is the mechanical cause?

[johnny comelately]

Yeah, does that mean the left hand wrenches we're on the right hand side of the car? (because the thread on both sides differ so that the turn of the wheel makes the nuts get tighter instead of looser) ......

I'm doubtful they use left and right hand threads for the wheel nuts. The nut is so small there would be very little force to loosen it, this would add a complexity and failure path during wheel changes, a reversed nut wouldn't even start let alone go on, and there are safety catches to prevent loosening. If you can show me some reference to this it would be appreciated.

They do, left for right and right for left. dynamic torque and all that

EDIT: I might be wrong, do the FIA now mandate same thread both sides?

[Zynerji]

what has happened with wheelnutgate?
todays (continuing) news about being ferrari clone seems to be a red herring

Eh? Please tell me we haven't got any conspiracy theorists on this hallowed forum suggesting that the wheel nut thing was a ploy to gift the win for Vettel.

Sorry but I have to tell you I am , it makes life interesting.
Anyhow could you tell me how you think the wheel nut got cross threaded (maybe the frequency statistics), and then it happening again just a few minutes later .
I can see if there was a mechanical cause that it could then duplicate, but what is the mechanical cause?

Or, HAAS is simply the newest team on the grid, at the first race of their third season. Mistakes are common in F1. Especially for the "rookies".

[bauc]

The WheelnutGate is by far the worst conspiracy theory of all times.

If anyone thinks HAAS would risk earning the biggest amount of points, possibly a podium if they got lucky just to give a slim chance of victory to Ferrari is out of every reasoning and logic. HAAS were in place for maybe a podium if the frontrunners got into a trouble and they are in perfect position to capitalize on the fact that teams like Renault, Forice India & Mclaren are currently behind them meaning earning a huge amount of points in race 1, which for team like HAAS means quite a lot!

Case closed!

[johnny comelately]

The WheelnutGate is by far the worst conspiracy theory of all times.

If anyone thinks HAAS would risk earning the biggest amount of points, possibly a podium if they got lucky just to give a slim chance of victory to Ferrari is out of every reasoning and logic. HAAS were in place for maybe a podium if the frontrunners got into a trouble and they are in perfect position to capitalize on the fact that teams like Renault, Forice India & Mclaren are currently behind them meaning earning a huge amount of points in race 1, which for team like HAAS means quite a lot!

Case closed!

There are far worse conspiracy theories out there, this one is not that bad
There is no shortage of F1 doing virtueless actions: piquetgate, scumacher (sorry michael) stop practicegate, ferrari, ferrari, ferrarigate
Could you tell me (mechanically) how the cross threading can happened?

[bauc]

The WheelnutGate is by far the worst conspiracy theory of all times.

If anyone thinks HAAS would risk earning the biggest amount of points, possibly a podium if they got lucky just to give a slim chance of victory to Ferrari is out of every reasoning and logic. HAAS were in place for maybe a podium if the frontrunners got into a trouble and they are in perfect position to capitalize on the fact that teams like Renault, Forice India & Mclaren are currently behind them meaning earning a huge amount of points in race 1, which for team like HAAS means quite a lot!

Case closed!

There are far worse conspiracy theories out there, this one is not that bad
There is no shortage of F1 doing virtueless actions: piquetgate, scumacher (sorry michael) stop practicegate, ferrari, ferrari, ferrarigate
Could you tell me (mechanically) how the cross threading can happened?

You ask me a question you know I have no answer to, but this will not resurrect this topic back to the living. How many times you have seen mistakes in pit stops? it happens, just this time it happened within 5 minutes, and if a team makes a fatal error in the pits their pressure rises exponentially when the next car is in line. And remember, HAAS does not have 2 separate pit crews, they have one crew for both cars so its the same guys how messed up few minutes ago trying to avoid the same mistake again, but bad luck to them they did it again.

Let it rest, if it was not for the Mercedes ''bug'' HAM whould have won esaily and this ''sacrifice'' would have been for waste.

[roy928tt]

Hi Guys I don't often post, but as a mechanic and F1 enthusiast I came here to find out what the story was with the crossthreaded wheel nuts.

I'm surprised that it appears that was all it was, I would have thought that the evolution F1 wheel nuts would be such that it was not possible to crossthread them, every other team and car has not displayed this issue. I did notice on our telecast a HAAS crew member retrieving one of the Paoli rattle guns after the second car left, was there rather an issue with one of the guns? Though we all saw a distraught helmuted crew member also. Has the team released any statement?

I'm just puzzled by it all.

On the flip side, I have the rear end of an old F1 car on my hillclimber and it takes me minutes to wrestle the wheel onto the drive studs and get a wheelnut on...so I should image all kinds of mishaps could take place in the space of 1.9 seconds....

[Cannonballer]

Hi Guys I don't often post, but as a mechanic and F1 enthusiast I came here to find out what the story was with the crossthreaded wheel nuts.

I'm surprised that it appears that was all it was, I would have thought that the evolution F1 wheel nuts would be such that it was not possible to crossthread them, every other team and car has not displayed this issue. I did notice on our telecast a HAAS crew member retrieving one of the Paoli rattle guns after the second car left, was there rather an issue with one of the guns? Though we all saw a distraught helmuted crew member also. Has the team released any statement?

I'm just puzzled by it all.

On the flip side, I have the rear end of an old F1 car on my hillclimber and it takes me minutes to wrestle the wheel onto the drive studs and get a wheelnut on...so I should image all kinds of mishaps could take place in the space of 1.9 seconds....

**off topic, but a hillclimber with the rear end of an old F1 car is thread worthy ...