Australian GP 2007

[Tom]

I think Wurz would have been fine even if DC had hit him, the helmets can withstand being run over by a tank and blasted by a shotgun from point blank, and with the HANS device his neck wasn't at great risk. was there not a similar incident in ChampCars with Tracy and Bourdais? Sebastian had minor concusion, that was all. Still, I suppose we don't know what could have happened, I don't think it will phase Alex too much though, it was a one off and will probably never happen to him again.

[pRo]

Whoa, just saw Wurz's steering wheel on tv. It had tyre marks on it. Good thing his fingers weren't inbetween..

[boban-mk]

Heikki and Flavio are smart guys, both of them. What we get through the media isn't the truth, definitely not the whole truth and it may very well be nothing but the truth. 8)

Heikki might've been a lot higher, if he was 0.2s faster in Q2. His mistake, no doubt about and he was the first to say it. But if Renault didn't have the mechanical issues they had, he would've gotten more tracktime. Which, on a track he's never been on, would've been very valuable. Worth the 0.2s? Who knows, we can only guess. But lets say it was and he made it into Q3. I think he would've easily been 8th, in front of the Toyotas. Maybe a place or two higher, but lets not go there, assume 8th. He probably wouldn't have tried too much from 8th, like he did now and chances are he would've finished right behind Fisichella. Which would've made him look good and Fisi bad.

Lots of ifs, I know, but something to think about. Lets just hope that Renault doesn't have mechanical issues in the fortcoming new tracks.


Also, Renault is supposed to have a good car and Fisi is supposed to be driving the best season ever. And they were over a minute slower?? Even half a minute to BMW on 4th. Good think that the other BMW and Ferrari had issues and couldn't run a normal race. If they did, the results would look very, VERY ugly for Renault. :?

I think they have issues in their car. More than we (or at least I) guessed from the winter testing. Or maybe I was just hoping they would've fixed them by now. If you were a newbie in a team which just won two championships, would you say to public that the car was bad?

Heikki is smarter than that. 8)

That is to many excuses for one weekend. 0.2s in Q2 means somethimes 3 to 4 places or more. So that statement can be sayed by everyone that didn't go to Q3. Statement from Briatore are pumped up, but some of them are quoted as they are sayed. I think that slower races does not suit Renault, and they have some problems that are not solved yet with reliability, so it's not just Heikki fault, even i must say that in the race it looked funny and not all mistakes are from bad car setup.

[pRo]

That is to many excuses for one weekend. 0.2s in Q2 means somethimes 3 to 4 places or more. So that statement can be sayed by everyone that didn't go to Q3.

I only iffed one thing, the 0.2s in Q2. Of course you can if about many things, but I chose just this one thing. Why? Because a mechanical issue forced him to skip many laps that he wanted to drive before the Q.

Like I said, we can only guess if more laps would've made him more confident with the car and able to push that 0.2s more. I didn't even make that guess (out loud). All we know is that a mechanical failure prevented that in the first place.

Statement from Briatore are pumped up, but some of them are quoted as they are sayed.

They always are and he does it himself and that's why we like him. I didn't mean to say the media did that for him, sorry if it seemed so.

in the race it looked funny and not all mistakes are from bad car setup

I'm not trying to defend him. Of course he made all the mistakes himself, he's the only one driving the car. I was merely trying to suggest that the difference between good and bad performance wasn't that big. And even their good performance wasn't really going to be a good one.

Heikki messed it up. Himself. Not trying to argue that, nor is there any point to do so. But the performance of Renault...they messed that up. Hope they all do better next time.

[Ciro Pabón]

... with the HANS device his neck wasn't at great risk... Still, I suppose we don't know what could have happened

Me neither. I just want to say that the HANS device supports your head against frontal impacts (or so it seems so) to prevent basilar skull fractures. This does not mean it can prevent all kind of impacts that causes them. The weight of the helmet can actually works against you: just read "Combination of factors killed Dale Earnhardt". I know this is a controversial point, so sad we wouldn't like to read about it (my heart became slumbered just by looking for the links): check "Racing past the truth", where it says: "Earnhardt suffered a skull fracture which ran from the front to the back of his head -- not the base" or "Ethicists debate independence of Earnhard report", where you can read: "The basilar skull fracture wasn't caused by a whiplash-like affect".

I agree instictively (a bad thing to do...): I doubt very much it can help you that much against lateral impact, look at the shape of the support and the belts and their anchor points.



There are worrying reports about how effective HANS is against lateral impact: "... we were struck by the violence with which the structure slapped up against the left side of the neck and the fact that the carbon fiber cracked in two locations ... The HANS device reduced lateral head torque by only 18%. In the case of the Isaac system it was reduced by 85%." (admitedly written in a comparison of the Issac and HANS devices).

I'd say it was luck and perhaps the new regulations that raised slightly the lateral protection of the cockpit. Mr. Wurz HAD NO CHANCE to pick up the angle of the crash, but some of you, racers, may have a split second to decide HOW to crash. Read some of the links, please. I don't know if they will make you any good, but perhaps you will have a thougher stand when race organizers decide something. (for example, wiki on Death of Ayrton Senna and Dale Earnhardt).

Anyway, I'd say that even if Mr. Wurz fingers were saved by the bell (I guess the tire markings mentioned by pRo were on top of the steering wheel), what worries me A LOT is how close Mr. Coulthard was to flip the car: the issue of open-wheel racing that worries me is how easy is to throw a car into the air and the two possibilities you have in a crash. Let me try to explain:

Thank heaven the Red Bull car was lifted horizontally. For me, this means (I haven't checked the tape, sorry, perhaps some of you can) that the left front wheel of Mr. Coulthard impacted the right front wheel of Mr. Wurz on the back of it, interlocking the wheels, instead of hitting it on the frontal part.

Just make two circles with thumb and index finger, like when you make the "OK" sign, with each hand: make the two circles "spin", as a wheel does, and make your right hand "circle" touch your left "circle", first on the back of your left thumb: the wheels move in opposite senses and the resultant force is vertical. Now do the same touching your left "circle" on the front: the resultant force produces a torque that spins your car (or Mr. Coulthard) and would have thrown the car upside down. I don't know if this is feasible (or if it introduces more problems that it solves) but I would cover somehow the frontal part of both front and rear wheels, to prevent this effect. Anyway, I don't know if this is a crazy advice, but when I see I'm going to hit another wheel, I try to do it on the back of it. Again, you may have a split second to make that decission.

I also think that the aerodynamics of a flying car must be revised somehow. I don't know if this is feasible, but the flaps of NASCAR could be used somehow on the undertray: it's evident, for my naive eye, that when the car lifts off the ground you have a huge surface that act the way a leaf behaves when falling from a tree. I wonder how you could "cut" that effect and preven the flipping of the car.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Whenever someone here criticized Fisichella's poor performance in 2005 and 2006 that was defined as "bashing" and now Flavio does the same to Heikki. It was his first race in a car that is far from top 2 teams at the moment. When Fisichella was flying of track, spinning and making similar mistakes in previous seasons he was never treated like that by Flavio. What happened to team spirit and support in hard times?

Flavio quotes from autosport.com:

"Heikki's performance? I think everybody was watching on TV. I don't need to protect anybody. It was rubbish,"

"What can I say? If I tell you it was good, I am a complete idiot."

"We know the guy is good. Because his performance was so bad, it was not him. Maybe it was his brother. We will try to get the real Heikki for the next race."

"You need to be realistic: he did almost everything wrong."

Excuse me but at least one half of Fisichella's races from 2005 and 2006 were as Hekki's today but there was never a comment from team boss as harsh as this one. That kind of talk is completely counterproductive and can only make things worse for a young and let's face it - at the moment scared and disappointed Heikki. If Fisichella with years of experience can make identical mistakes without being bashed by Flavio than Hekki who had no F1 racing experience at all shouldn't be blamed even for things that have nothing to do with him.

I'm a team fan, not driver fan but I'm not hesitating to say that I get impression that Renault thought it will win in 2007 too with mild changes on the car. If it was logical that Bridgestone tyres would work better on no-keel front suspension than there was no reason to leave V keel. If Red Bull could change it than Renault could too. As things seam now, Renault is back in 2004 with Ferrari, Mclaren and even BMW in front of them without a chance for a title.

To back up my claims... if Fisichella did well today as Flavio said than best thing Heikki could do was to finish 6th, behind Fisichella and he finished 10th. So what? When Fisichella was finishing several places behind Alonso that was described as "good job", "did his best", "helped the team" etc.

Heikki did the same today so there is no reason to attack him. However, if Flavio actually though that Heikki should have finished in front of Fisichella than it means that once again Fisichella is expected to pick points and such driving has nothing to do with fight for championship like it had nothing to do with it in 2005 and 2006.

I don't think he was out of line. Heikki made some big errors, and Flavio is probably pissed that his team is no longer top dog. Heikki should have been alot closer to Fissi IMO. We all know that Alonso is alot faster than Fissi, and Flavio is pissed because Hekki is alot slower than Fissi. You do the maths and that equals no wins and no championships for Renault this year barring any extenuating circumstances.

[Scuderia_Russ]

I think Wurz would have been fine even if DC had hit him, the helmets can withstand being run over by a tank and blasted by a shotgun from point blank, and with the HANS device his neck wasn't at great risk.

Did we see the same incident? He could have taken Wurz's head off with that ill thought out maneouvre!

[joseff]

The RBR's front wheel didn't really touch the cockpit, it was the rear left. And I agree with Russ, Alex was lucky to escape with all his fingers intact.

[manchild]

Did we see the same incident? He could have taken Wurz's head off with that ill thought out maneouvre!

I agree completely with SR. Part of the car's floor below sidepods could have smashed or even cut his helmet in two. That's 600kg of sharp carbon fiber traveling at high speed. No helmet or HANS could prevent fatal outcome. AS SR wrote, HANS is to help with G forces during impact. It can't protect driver's head and neck from direct impact of such huge mass at high speed as whole car is.

If DC's car was only 50 cm more backwards it would sit on Wurz's helmet and that would snap his spine like a toothpick. If it slided of top of the cockpit it would smash or perhaps even cut his helmet in two.

I've never seen an F1 accident after 1994 closer to fatal outcome than this one.

[Sawtooth-spike]

The Helmet would of taken the hit, and not broken, But his Neck would of Snapped, not a nice thought. It probably would of decapitated him.

I have not seen an over taking that bad since damon hill

[vyselegend]

I have not seen an over taking that bad since damon hill

Remember Sato on Trulli at suzuka 2005...

About the dangerosity of this incident, I don't think there's too much to argue. It is obvious anyone hit by a flying 600 kg F1 car in the head is a dead man. As MC says there are no systems in this world allowing for a human being to endure direct impact from such a mass safely.

Well, I think it's safe to say that coulthard "did a sato"

[f1.redbaron]

Wow. I think that my heart would've stopped:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTvZVq0q96E

[dumrick]

Well, I think it's safe to say that coulthard "did a sato"

Usually Sato crashes in the back of the other guy...

After reviewing the footage multiple times (courtesy of the forum members and the You Tube links), I'm becoming convinced that actually the crash is Wurz's fault:
- Coulthard is able to clearly outbreak him and actually plunges well in the inside of the corner at a terminal speed that is not that much different from Wurz's, suggesting that he could make the corner. The initial impact is between front wheels, so Coulthard is in fact alongside Wurz. Is Wurz (that obviously was more focused in the car ahead than in Coulthard, assuming he was too far back to try the manouver) that doesn't check the mirrors and slams the door shut in Coulthard's face.

Of course Coulthard disagrees with me and thinks it's his fault... maybe he had indeed too much speed, but being the impact so early on the corner, I cannot see any understeer on his car...

[f1.redbaron]

Well, I think it's safe to say that coulthard "did a sato"

Usually Sato crashes in the back of the other guy...

After reviewing the footage multiple times (courtesy of the forum members and the You Tube links), I'm becoming convinced that actually the crash is Wurz's fault:
- Coulthard is able to clearly outbreak him and actually plunges well in the inside of the corner at a terminal speed that is not that much different from Wurz's, suggesting that he could make the corner. The initial impact is between front wheels, so Coulthard is in fact alongside Wurz. Is Wurz (that obviously was more focused in the car ahead than in Coulthard, assuming he was too far back to try the manouver) that doesn't check the mirrors and slams the door shut in Coulthard's face.

mmm...disagree.

Coulthard went straight on, way off the racing line with a much higher corner approach speed than what it should have been.

If you look at the first 3-4 second of the YT file I left, you can see that if you mentally project DC's trajectory, you can see that he would've gone off track.

[miqi23]

This incident should raise concerns about safety. Alex Wurz was lucky the tyres did not hit his helmet otherwise it could have easily damaged his neck...