Nelson Piquet junior

[Moanlower]

To me - right now he only looks to be in the "decent - but not brilliant" class of driver - a little like Fizzy.

Time may prove me wrong - but to shine in future he needs to be better than (at the very least):

Hamilton
Kubica
Vettel
Rosberg
Massa

All of whom are likely to be around for a little while and all of whom look like better drivers with room to grow.

You named a couple of the most talented drivers and you include Massa in the list? This I don't understand.
You also claim that, to shine in the future, Nelson needs to be better than the above drivers??

To me, Kubica and Hamilton are the most talented on the grid and Vettel and Rosberg getting close.

Nelson only has the experience of a couple races which started in a very crappy car. All he needs is a bit more routine, experience and a good car to compete against any driver.

It is very hard to tell with everything that is different between his and Alonso's car setups. (Post race conference, he said that Alonso actually copied HIS setup) So ediventially Alonso is not setting up both cars, as was expected after last season.

But I think that Fred made the wrong choice leaving McLaren. He could be leading the WDC right now in the MP4-23 instead of fighting for 8 place points...
Chris

I doesn't mean that because Alonso once relied on Nelson's setup because he struggled a bit that this have been the case since the beginning of the season. Recent F1 cars gets very easely out of balance, and it shows that even Alonso -which I consider as one, if not, the best in setting up a car- can struggle.
I do believe that in all other races Nelson mostly relied on Alonso's settings.

And I don't think Alonso should have stayed at Mclaren. He never felt comfortable at this team since the beginning with Hamilton being very competitive, being better prepaired to the season, even being a rookie and being English as the team is and daddy Ron.

[RH1300S]

To me - right now he only looks to be in the "decent - but not brilliant" class of driver - a little like Fizzy.

Time may prove me wrong - but to shine in future he needs to be better than (at the very least):

Hamilton
Kubica
Vettel
Rosberg
Massa

All of whom are likely to be around for a little while and all of whom look like better drivers with room to grow.

You named a couple of the most talented drivers and you include Massa in the list? This I don't understand.
You also claim that, to shine in the future, Nelson needs to be better than the above drivers??

To me, Kubica and Hamilton are the most talented on the grid and Vettel and Rosberg getting close.

Nelson only has the experience of a couple races which started in a very crappy car. All he needs is a bit more routine, experience and a good car to compete against any driver.

That's just arguing for arguments sake!

(which. I suppose I'm doing now )

I'm not making a list of the best drivers; I'm suggesting that (at the very least) he will have to up his game to the level of all the above. There are other notable drivers missing (Alonso) - I'm just picking out the most likely young drivers to be future stars.

Whatever you think of Massa (another thread is open to discuss that) - you can't deny that Piquet isn't at Massa's level right now (time and experience may fix that), so Massa is a fair inclusion on the list.

[axle]

Just to bump this...

I voted for too early to judge...

I've now decided that he is not good enough for F1 at the moment, I believe he, Senna and some others would do better if they continued their education in GP2.

[boci]

I think that Piquet needs another season and is Renaults best choice for 2009. Most rookies struggle in their first full season if they are not in a top car and if Renault sack him for Di Grassi or Grosjean they will struggle just like Nelson him.

If Piquet still struggles to get into the points next year when his team-mate (even if its Fernando) is regularly in the top 6-8 then it will be time for some change in 2010.

[vyselegend]

It is never a good think to trash a driver, especially from someone who clearly couldn't do better (us), but is true also that F1 seat are fit for the best in the world, and Piquet failure to make through Q1 once more, this time with the (arguably - look at race laps times-) second faster car of the grid is kind of a proof he doesn't deserves it. I think a driver must benefit from the excuse of learning for at least half a season, but then he must show consitent progress, and ability to help the team. We're now in the last part of the season and the comparison with Glock, Nakajima, or even the "slow" Bourdais is hurting a lot!

I think his german podium saved him from an early drop, to the benefit of DiGrassi. But there's no sign of progression at all, he crashes the car every two races, and even in a good day, hasn't enough skills to cope with his shamefull qualifyng "performances".

If all he can do to help his team is crash the car with a good timing like today, then I think it's reasonable from both sides to say goodbye. I'm not filled with bad feelings for Nelsinho, but I'm tired of waiting an eclosion that will never come...

Let enter Lucas Di Grassi!

[vyselegend]

There are a rising number of french speaking websites reporting that both Grosjean and Di Grassi are registered for next year GP2 championship racing for the CAMPOS team, which is seen as a Renault unofficial team.

Sounds good news for Piquet.

Now the season's over, I have to say his first year was a total disapointment, bar the German GP where he showed good pace when things turned his way, and the Japanese GP where he was really good in the race.

Overall this year smell like sh*t to be honnest, but now I remember Nico Rosberg's first campain in 2006 was quite similar in the form, with a good result and then lots of crashes and missed opportunities. And the next year he was very good, and still is one of the most convincing drivers of the field IMO. So maybe Piquet Jr is walking on the same ground... I hope.

[ISLAMATRON]

Piquet's results this year are more evidence of just how excellent a driver Hamilton is. Piquet was the only driver this year that didnt outqual his teammate once this year.

HAmilton's rookie season versus a 2xWDC was just an indication of how great he is. He embarassed Alonso and Alonso did everything he could to get out of the team to avoid further embarassment.

Renault doesnt have time to play with kids... If Rubans or Bourdais is available they should sign them, but I doubt Alonso would be ok with the challenge.

Should be interesting to see Grosjan vs Di Grassi, but if any young driver should be signed it should be Paul Di Resta, but he may be locked up by Mercedes already.

Piquet's problems this year, along with Heikki's early struggles & Rosberg's & Scott Speed's makes me think that that GP2 is just not a good enuff training ground. Yes the cars are faster than any other feeder series, but the races are too short and all that reversing grid crap masks the true abilities of the drivers... they should have 2 feature races each weekend. Extend the distance and get rid of the reverse finishing grid, too gimmicky.

[timbo]

Piquet's results this year are more evidence of just how excellent a driver Hamilton is. Piquet was the only driver this year that didnt outqual his teammate once this year.

OMG... Can you make a single post without comparing every other driver to Hamilton and proclaiming how great he is???

[shir0]

Walk home, Nelsinho...walk home.

[shir0]

Piquet's results this year are more evidence of just how excellent a driver Hamilton is. Piquet was the only driver this year that didnt outqual his teammate once this year.

OMG... Can you make a single post without comparing every other driver to Hamilton and proclaiming how great he is???

he can't. don't bother asking...

Just show him this...

[3KGT]

I don't think Piquet should be retained next season. The gap between him and Alonso is just too great and with all the young talent that we have seen come into the sport over the last few years, the standard for a rookie is as high as it has ever been. Just look at Vettel, Kubica, or Hamilton's rookie season. These young guys are too talented to be kept in the lower formulas, Renault should take a chance on di Grassi, he can't do much worse than Piquet did this year. Of course it all depends on if Alonso will stay on. If he does not than Flav should sign either Grosjean or di Grassi to partner Bourdais (if he is not retained by STR) or Barrichello (if he is not retained by Honda). Partner youth and experience.

[Miguel]

I'll probably regret saying this but... I think Renault should keep Piquet one more year, but one year only. They should take the winter tests to really improve Piquet's qualifying performance, since he hasn't been that far from Alonso in race trim. They really need to shave two tenths. But I will be sincere and tell you that the real reason behind keeping Piquet is grooming Grosjean in GP2 so that he tempers his blood* and to a least extent do this with Di Grassi. Of course, one of these should be testing with asiduity one of the F1 cars.

*Romain threw like 8 points and the sprint race after the safety car in spain, and threw some more valuable points in Magny Cours.

Just look at Vettel, Kubica, or Hamilton's rookie season.

Actually, Vettel's first races were horrendous racecraft wise. While he is indeed very impressive, it's also impressive that he failed to complete a single lap in the first four races of the season. And remember he threw away Mark Webber's shoot at the win in Fuji and Toro Rosso's first podium in Fuji. What this shows is that even the most talented drivers in the world need some grooming time. It's likely that Vettel has beneffited from the lower pressure of not being in a top team. And he raced Hamilton in a very fair way yesterday.

EDIT: IMHO vyselegend hits the target with his comparison with Rosberg. Both seasons have been pretty similar, although at least Nico managed to outqualify Webber sometimes.

[3KGT]

I'll probably regret saying this but... I think Renault should keep Piquet one more year, but one year only. They should take the winter tests to really improve Piquet's qualifying performance, since he hasn't been that far from Alonso in race trim. They really need to shave two tenths. But I will be sincere and tell you that the real reason behind keeping Piquet is grooming Grosjean in GP2 so that he tempers his blood* and to a least extent do this with Di Grassi. Of course, one of these should be testing with asiduity one of the F1 cars.

*Romain threw like 8 points and the sprint race after the safety car in spain, and threw some more valuable points in Magny Cours.

Just look at Vettel, Kubica, or Hamilton's rookie season.

Actually, Vettel's first races were horrendous racecraft wise. While he is indeed very impressive, it's also impressive that he failed to complete a single lap in the first four races of the season. And remember he threw away Mark Webber's shoot at the win in Fuji and Toro Rosso's first podium in Fuji. What this shows is that even the most talented drivers in the world need some grooming time. It's likely that Vettel has beneffited from the lower pressure of not being in a top team. And he raced Hamilton in a very fair way yesterday.

EDIT: IMHO vyselegend hits the target with his comparison with Rosberg. Both seasons have been pretty similar, although at least Nico managed to outqualify Webber sometimes.

You have a valid point Miguel, but at the beginning of his first full time season Vettel had proven he was quick by grabbing a point at the US GP for BMW. Remember he was not really a complete rookie like Piquet is going into the 2007 season. Vettel did make a lot of rookie mistakes in the early races but, he made up for it with his results later in the season, Piquet did as well but only slightly. Vettel always had the speed, he just needed to mature a little bit, whereas Piquet never really had the speed he needed regardless of his racecraft. And as for Fuji, Webbo and Vettel were both caught out by Hamilton's erradic behavior behind the safety car, we have all seen the video on youtube.

[Metar]

He grabbed a point, but it should be "just" a point - he qualified further ahead, but an off on the first corner, if my memory is correct, sent him further down the field.

[ISLAMATRON]

He grabbed a point, but it should be "just" a point - he qualified further ahead, but an off on the first corner, if my memory is correct, sent him further down the field.

Yes he(VETTLE) finished 8th in the 3rd best car(that means 5th or 6th position should have been his)... and that was only after Nico & Nick retired from ahead of him with mechanicals. It was effectively a 10th place finish in a car capable of 5th, not impressive at all in my eyes. And that was after being a well used friday driver.

And Bordais was beginning to get the better of him last this season... he will have a tough season against Webber next year for sure.