2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

[gibells]

Remember when F1 was about the best of the best of the best.

Don't know about you, but there is something in me that likes a fighter, likes someone to stop in the moving crowd, turn, and walk the other way. I can hardly believe I'm saying this but I actually think I'm starting to support SF after all these years. Would you believe it.

Go on Ferrari, build a sportscar and wipe the board in LMP. History needs to be written here, now.

[mcdenife]

People dont seem to understand the issue is not the level of the budget cap but the principle of a budget cap itself that Ferrari object to and in this case I totally, absolutely agree with them. It would be the height of folly to open their books to any FIA or FIA appointed accountant. That perhaps is the actual problem is it not? Once teams agree to a cap, it must policed. But how do you police a budget cap without subjecting my business accounts and practices to an unaccountable/unqualified body. Even the drivers (GPDA) refused this when the FIA requested they show how much they earn, and what, how they spend their pay before it (FIA) would agree to review the superlicense fees. The FIA has no business poking its nose (collective and otherwise) into the commercial interests/business of the teams and drivers.

[Ciro Pabón]

I have a conspiracy theory (again).

You know Ecclestone wanted to buy a couple of small teams with the help of Tony Texeira to "blend" A1GP and F1, don't you?

Then, we had the "no customer" team rule, that put STR for sale. Why "no customers"? Because Ferrari dominance was extending to smaller "Ferrari customer" teams, isn't it? Why would Toyota want to invest a gazillion to be beaten by STR? It makes them look bad.

After Brawn GP, Toyota looks worse, btw, but that's another story.

Now, Mr. Texeira complained publicily about the "no customer" rule, as you probably know. If you don't, then:

http://www.autoracingdaily.com/news/lat ... y-into-f1/

So, as I see it, for the "master plan" to work for Texeira and Ecclestone, the budget cap is essential: it gives them the intermediate ladder between A1GP and F1. Perhaps that's why we have all this fighting.

Yes, yes, I know, I have no proof, but up to this date I have a truly good "prophecy record". I also know I've been asking for years for a "ladder" to be established, I read my own posts.

Remember: in the strange case I'm remotely on the mark, you read it first at F1Tech...

[wesley123]

Ferrari seems very serious after now, i see ferrari pulling out directly if the debate that is coming doestn help anything. And if ferrari leaves the sport is dead, as the rst will follow.

[CZOLG]

I am a great Ferrari fan and followed F1 since I was able to get TV broadcast in Poland (UK now).
As much as I enjoy F1 and Ferrari I am actually looking forward for Ferrari's withdrawal.
Le mans, GT series, Ferrari factory team in both, that should be more exciting that standarized F1 cars with engines redlined at 12k that should last for whole season...
Either that, or a new series, although that does not seem to me as a feasible option at the moment.

[Afterburner]

It's because of statements like the one Piero Ferrari made that i like Ferrari! Ferrari in F1 isn't only a big team, it's one of the few teams that have principles and that gave it prestige, Bernie isn't stupid and he knows that Ferrari prestige gaves him money when signing deals so i understand Bernie being political fow now but i can't understand is why he has too keep 50% of F1 money even with this crisis with the risk it all disapears.

[WhiteBlue]

One thing is not logical about this F1 pull out. Ferrari claim that they cannot reduce their workforce fast enough to make the budget cap. But if they do not enter F1 next year they will not need their F1 team either. They have to dismantle it completely as opposed to just cutting it down and put the guys on completely new projects. It does not sound so convincing that they would want to do that.

[xpensive]

I believe that the bottom line is that n o b o d y in F1 wants their books examined by the FIA. Quite undestandable that.

[timbo]

One thing is not logical about this F1 pull out. Ferrari claim that they cannot reduce their workforce fast enough to make the budget cap. But if they do not enter F1 next year they will not need their F1 team either. They have to dismantle it completely as opposed to just cutting it down and put the guys on completely new projects. It does not sound so convincing that they would want to do that.

Today it seems that if you enter unrestricted - you loose. Why bother with it? They can let same people do a LMP1 car instead, or something else.

[timbo]

I believe that the bottom line is that n o b o d y in F1 wants their books examined by the FIA. Quite undestandable that.

I don't think this is the essence of protest. I think teams are tired of MM imposing drastic changes without consulting with teams.
Next time he'd come up with something like drivers would change teams fore every race and start with reversed fields and stuff, and that would start within a year and render all long-term contracts useless.

[donskar]

There are actually at least THREE reasons why the teams are threatening to leave:

1) They do not want to open their books to the Evil Twins

2) They want a voice in the decision-making process

3) They do not want a two-class F1

Any more I missed?

[ISLAMATRON]

There are actually at least THREE reasons why the teams are threatening to leave:

1) They do not want to open their books to the Evil Twins

2) They want a voice in the decision-making process

3) They do not want a two-class F1

Any more I missed?

3) THERE IS NO 2 CLASS IF EVERYBODY AGREES TO THE CAP

2) They DO have a voice... Refuel Ban, weight limit increase, all their ideas

1) Who cares about their books... are they laundering money for the Italian Mob? what is so bad about showing how much they pay for nuts and bolts? Are they embarrassed at the level of waste?

[axle]

There are actually at least THREE reasons why the teams are threatening to leave:

1) They do not want to open their books to the Evil Twins

2) They want a voice in the decision-making process

3) They do not want a two-class F1

Any more I missed?

3) THERE IS NO 2 CLASS IF EVERYBODY AGREES TO THE CAP

2) They DO have a voice... Refuel Ban, weight limit increase, all their ideas

1) Who cares about their books... are they laundering money for the Italian Mob? what is so bad about showing how much they pay for nuts and bolts? Are they embarrassed at the level of waste?

FIA should be referees and that's all, they should enforce agreed rules. Not make them up whilst the game is being played.

Think of 1 other sport with this level of incompetence and interference from the governing body....there isn't one.

You're massively missing the point.
Why should the FIA have access to their accounts?
Why didn't the FIA talk to the teams BEFORE "rubber stamping" a new set of rules, that need to be implemented in ~6 months!
Why does it have to be from 2010?
Why don't they ask about 3 car teams?
Why don't they investigate cost savings through materials/technologies?
Why don't they suggest a staggered budget capping policy? 2010 £xxxmillion/ 2011 £xxmillion etc...

The FIA could have done lots of things better than this barked order to comply or die. The FIA are trying to get rid of the manufacturers...they see them as the problem...this is where Bernie and Max will fall out. Bernie needs the cache of having manufacturers to make money, Max wants things cheaper (which is a good thing) at any cost (bad thing).

It doesn't appear that the FIA/Max are listening to the fans, just doing the odd bit to appease them.

The teams are committed to spending less, so at least converse with them as to HOW before decreeing some 1/2 ar5ed plan.

[ISLAMATRON]

The cap is optional, the teams have every right to waste as much as they wish and continue an artificially regulated rules package and be much slower.

The problem with progressive budget cuts that it gives no incentive for new teams to join the grid but in the meantime many of the manufacturers are talking about leaving (even before the 2010 rules were published.)


We have heard of rumors of Toyota, Renault, and even Mercedes leaving F1 since the shocking Honda news dropped.

F1 has been losing teams both manufacturer and independent steadily for the last 2 decades. With this cap in place we are hearing about a possible 4 to 7 new teams. It helps a new team in no way for the budget cap to be started at 100 mil or so.

The best way around all this controversy would have been to only pay out FOM money to teams that operate unde the budget cap... but maintain the same technical rules for everyone.

[CMSMJ1]

ref Islamatron's 2 tier arguments.

How does it fall on Max to wipe out the value of a company in the stroke of a pen.

the larger F1 teams have all got wage bills getting up to 40 million...and capital investments in rigs, tunnels and machinery to make your eyes water.

This cap is a good idea in the ideal world...a bit like communism. One for all and all for one- we can all eb equal as we love our fellow man...

I call BS on that.

The teams who wish to spend what they like should be allowed to do so. If Max wants to arrange a cost capped series he should use the 2010 F1 regulations for the replacement of GP2. The more skint F1 teams can drop into it and be big fish, the bigger teams from GP2 can join in and we can all live happily ever after witha series that is cheap (in relative terms) but that can also showcase tehcnology and speed.

F1 will be the pre eminent foce in open wheel racing as it has been, should be and hopefully forever will be.