EU slams Ferrari over Marlboro partnership

[autogyro]

It has little to do with Todt or the FIA, it is European law.

[timbo]

It has little to do with Todt or the FIA, it is European law.

As I said, any lawyer should be able to prove that barcode has nothing to do with Marlboro.
As for Ferrari/Marlboro association, please visit Ferrari.com and find how many times Marlboro is mentioned.

[andrew]

I think the rules/law is actually no tobacco advertising rather than spondorship. All teams are free to get sponsorship from whoever they like, but they can't display the name/logo if it is a tobaco company. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. Storm in a tea cup.

All tobacco advertising and sponsorship on television has been banned within the European Union since 1991 under the Television Without Frontiers Directive (1989)
Sorry, even just the name Ferrari/Malboro is against the law.

If you read my comment again, you'll see that is what I said. The tobacco company name/logo cannot be displayed but a team can still take the cash.

Ferrari have a contract with Marlboro until 2011 so they have no option but to display the name somewhere or else they would get done for breach of contract I guess. But I cannot honestly remember the last time I heard Marlboro mentioned as part of Ferrari's name.

[andrew]

It has little to do with Todt or the FIA, it is European law.

As I said, any lawyer should be able to prove that barcode has nothing to do with Marlboro.
As for Ferrari/Marlboro association, please visit Ferrari.com and find how many times Marlboro is mentioned.

Ferrari say it is part of the cars design. Pretty easy to prove as it looks nothing like a pack of smokes.

[autogyro]

I will state it again
All tobacco advertising AND SPONSORSHIP on television has been banned within the European Union since 1991 under the Television Without Frontiers Directive (1989)
Sorry, even just the name Ferrari/Malboro is against the law.

I think you will find there is little doubt here.

Word semantics and bar codes do not cover the FACT that Marlboro SPONSOR Ferrari.

[andrew]

I will state it again
All tobacco advertising AND SPONSORSHIP on television has been banned within the European Union since 1991 under the Television Without Frontiers Directive (1989)
Sorry, even just the name Ferrari/Malboro is against the law.

I think you will find there is little doubt here.

Word semantics and bar codes do not cover the FACT that Marlboro SPONSOR Ferrari.

I'm not disputing the fact that advertising is banned, but I'm sure the teams can get sponsorship funds from anyone they like. The barcode thing is pretty subjective - to some it's Marlboro, to some it's just a design. I remember mentioning it to a couple folk a while ago and they actually didn't belive me that it was to do with Marlboro. And I'm not disputing the fact that Marlboro sponsor Ferrari. I'm pretty sure that they sponsor this thread!

[timbo]

Word semantics and bar codes do not cover the FACT that Marlboro SPONSOR Ferrari.

Law is not about facts. It's about definitions.
Fact is Marlboro gives money to Ferrari. Is it sponsorship? Not necessary.

[autogyro]

Teams cannot get sponsorship funds from tobacco companies in Europe, it is against the law.
If it is not sponsorship what is it?

[timbo]

Partnership? Gift?

All tobacco advertising AND SPONSORSHIP on television has been banned within the European Union since 1991 under the Television Without Frontiers Directive (1989)
Sorry, even just the name Ferrari/Malboro is against the law.

Picture taken at French GP 1992

[timbo]

I seriously wonder, why they don't question Ducati...
With a racer named Casey Stoner

[andrew]

Teams cannot get sponsorship funds from tobacco companies in Europe, it is against the law.
If it is not sponsorship what is it?

Donation. You don't speak about political parties being sponsored by various well funded millionaires do you?

So I think we can bring this to a close and to summarise the main points for anyone who doesn't want to go through pages of text:

1. Smoking is bad
2. Autogyro dislikes Ferrari and LDM
3. Ferrari have a barcode design on the engine cover which they claim is just a design
4. Marlboro donate money to Ferrari as a possible tax dodge
5. Timbo makes terrible jokes!

Right, I think that's the main points of the thread!

(Just joshing, no offence meant. )

[autogyro]

Wiki
Ever since the first appearance of the Red, Gold and White colors of the Imperial Tobacco's Gold Leaf brand sponsorship livery at the 1968 Monaco Grand Prix[55], teams, drivers and circuits of Formula One (F1) for years have been heavily dependent on the financial backing of sponsors and from the arrival of Gold Leaf many decades the tobacco industry played the major role in sponsoring the sport[56]. In 1976, Germany began a trend in outlawing tobacco sponsorships in motor races, followed by United Kingdom in 1984, starting with major races and the rest in later years. In 1992 France did the same[57]. As anti-smoking legislation began to tighten in many parts of the world F1 became an even more important opportunity for cigarette brand promotion. The negotiating skills of the F1 leadership (especially Bernie Ecclestone) were such that in many jurisdictions F1 achieved some exemptions from the rules[57]. However, there is now a blanket ban on advertising in Europe, and the cars are not allowed to show any links with the tobacco companies and tobacco advertising started to exit. In 2000, WilliamsF1 became the first major team to run without tobacco sponsorship[58], and McLaren later replaced the West brand and no longer have any tobacco sponsors. Renault ended the deal with Mild Seven after the 2006 season, and in the same year British American Tobacco, owners of British American Racing team[59] withdrew from F1, selling the team to Honda. Ferrari on the other hand renewed their arrangements with Philip Morris in 2005, until 2011, albeit the name is not expected to be shown[60].

Through the arrangement, the Marlboro brand in 2007 was legally visible prominently on the cars, jumpsuits and pit crew at three races: at the Bahrain[61], Monaco and Chinese Grands Prix. Ferrari was the only team backed by a cigarette brand in the 2007 Formula One season. Since the start of the 2008 season, Ferrari has no longer carried Marlboro logos at any races, even those at which tobacco advertising is allowed. It is therefore unlikely that any F1 car will ever directly advertise tobacco again. However the barcode symbol that is used instead is "subliminally" suggestive of the Marlboro branding, and signifies their sponsorship.

[autogyro]

Teams cannot get sponsorship funds from tobacco companies in Europe, it is against the law.
If it is not sponsorship what is it?

Donation. You don't speak about political parties being sponsored by various well funded millionaires do you?

So I think we can bring this to a close and to summarise the main points for anyone who doesn't want to go through pages of text:

1. Smoking is bad
2. Autogyro dislikes Ferrari and LDM
3. Ferrari have a barcode design on the engine cover which they claim is just a design
4. Marlboro donate money to Ferrari as a possible tax dodge
5. Timbo makes terrible jokes!

Right, I think that's the main points of the thread!

(Just joshing, no offence meant. )

Non taken but you forgot something.
Millions upon millions of dollars that Ferrari should pay to the European Union.
It might even help bail out Greece.

[andrew]

Wiki
...Ferrari has no longer carried Marlboro logos at any races, even those at which tobacco advertising is allowed. It is therefore unlikely that any F1 car will ever directly advertise tobacco again.

So they're not displaying Marlboro logos then.

However the barcode symbol that is used instead is "subliminally" suggestive of the Marlboro branding, and signifies their sponsorship.

Opinion, not a proven fact.

(Assuming that Wikipedia is correct)

[manchild]

Financial investigation will define what is the meaning of the design they carry on their cars and overalls - if Marlboro transfers money to Ferrari account than no matter how dissimilar to Marlboro logo the design is, it will mean that it represents Marlboro. There isn't a court in the world that will believe that Marlboro gives $1 billion to Ferrari as a charity. Even if they paint cars red only, without slightest hints of white and black, if the money keeps coming the red will stand for Marlboro red.

BTW, timbo, nice pics on that location, found this unseen photo of first Renault F1 prototype running on track.