Force India VJM04 Mercedes

[Raptor22]

It's not one of those things that can be changed during a season can it? (the roll structure) part of the homogolated chassis?

I remember the Merc W01 had it already "built in" from launch so that they could eventually use it without causing a fuss from the FIA.

I believe the chassis are no longer homolagated. One of the Engineers from a rival was bantering abouthow they could adapt their car to fit the Renault FSE (Forward Swept Exhaust) due to the lifting of he requirement for the entire chassis to be homologated.

[forty-two]

While I don't doubt your integrity Raptor, do you have a source for that?

[ESPImperium]

It's not one of those things that can be changed during a season can it? (the roll structure) part of the homogolated chassis?

I remember the Merc W01 had it already "built in" from launch so that they could eventually use it without causing a fuss from the FIA.

I believe the chassis are no longer homolagated. One of the Engineers from a rival was bantering abouthow they could adapt their car to fit the Renault FSE (Forward Swept Exhaust) due to the lifting of he requirement for the entire chassis to be homologated.

Doubt that. As soon as they pass the 4 standard crash tests plus the t-tray test and roll hoop test they are homologated. And the reason for this is all due to costs. In 2007/8 it was €600,000 a tub on average to manufacture. now its probably on average €25,000 more. However some may be cheaper, some may be more. In the 200s teams were manufacturing up to 10 a season, and Toyota in 2005 to my records manufactured 17 tubs, however some were for display, the cost remains the same, roughly.

Last year most teams made on average 4 tubs, Red Bull and Ferrari made 6, Red Bull for damage, Ferrari as its their standard of 6 a season. Only Toro Rosso and Hispania had 3 tubs made.

Lifting the Homologation rules will release a tidal wave of B-Spec tubs again, the last of which was 30KG lighter, and that was the BMW Sauber F1.09-07 & F1.09-08 driven by Heidfeld & Kubica from Valencia onward in 2009, the reason they were lighter was due to KERS Battery module and MGU removal.

As for the FEE concept, this will not need any alteration to the tubs at all. None what so ever, just some imagination to how the exhausts can avoid the soft points of the cars, the radiators/cooling pack/electronics /fuel cell and not boil the car alive effectively.

[ringo]

They cost that much when Mclaren have the Mp4 12C road car with a 1 piece carbon tub and the whole car costs less than 600,000 euros?

[timbo]

They cost that much when Mclaren have the Mp4 12C road car with a 1 piece carbon tub and the whole car costs less than 600,000 euros?

I remember reading that MP4 12 uses cheaper technology.

[ESPImperium]

They cost that much when Mclaren have the Mp4 12C road car with a 1 piece carbon tub and the whole car costs less than 600,000 euros?

Complexity in the shapes, and the jigs that need to be used, as well as the amount of carbon that has to be used as well. The man hours are more and there are other factors also included. The MP4/12C tub seemingly costs only 3% of the cost of a F1 tub. The article is no longer on the webs as F1 Live is no longer, its now ESPN.

[Tim.Wright]

They cost that much when Mclaren have the Mp4 12C road car with a 1 piece carbon tub and the whole car costs less than 600,000 euros?

You can't compare costs of a production car to a racing protoype simple as that.

In my experience those numbers seem about right if they include non recurring costs of tooling and pattern making.

Tim

[PlatinumZealot]

I think an f1 car is a little cheaper than a buggatti veyron according to nick Wirth. So that's around 2 million US for the whole car.

[forty-two]

I fear we are at risk of going off topic a little, but my tuppence on this:

If I am working on a custom project, in which I plan on selling one or two units, all of the development time and cost must be absorbed by that one customer, whereas if I am planning on shifting 1,000 units, the cost of development can be spread out between them. Kind of a roundabout way of saying economy of scale.

In F1 however, development cost can be somewhat offset if the design is successful as a result of greater revenues from FOM and sponsors.

To evaluate the "cost" of a tub is somewhat subjective. If we're talking about popping out a dozen copies of the same tub versus designing a new one, the "cost" will vary by undoubtedly orders of magnitude, especially if you factor in wind-tunnel time etc.

[ringo]

They cost that much when Mclaren have the Mp4 12C road car with a 1 piece carbon tub and the whole car costs less than 600,000 euros?

Complexity in the shapes, and the jigs that need to be used, as well as the amount of carbon that has to be used as well. The man hours are more and there are other factors also included. The MP4/12C tub seemingly costs only 3% of the cost of a F1 tub. The article is no longer on the webs as F1 Live is no longer, its now ESPN.

Do you have a source pertaining to the F1 tub cost?
I could understand development costs, but when you said each one within one season it sounded a bit strange. The 12C tubs seems more complicated than an F1 tub in shape as well.
I'm not doubting you, but just curious.

[marcush.]

usually a little juggling of numbers does enlighten us but why not ask the experts from Mclaren:

http://www.cardesignnews.com/site/home/ ... tem180894/

"Referring to the just-announced McLaren MP4-12C production car, Stephenson said that the engine was no longer the heart of a car; instead, it was the carbon fiber tub, comprising the front bulkhead, the floor, the seats and the rear bulkhead. "For a F1 car the tub alone costs £100,000," said Stephenson. "For the Mercedes McLaren SLR we have just been building, the tub costs £30,000 - but for our new car the tub is both stronger and lighter and costs just £6,000."

[PlatinumZealot]

wicked.

[auto saibot]

is the crash structure high, or the rear wing long?

[auto saibot]

small changes in front wing

[perer]

is the crash structure high, or the rear wing long?

Wow that car is severely undercut! They had a bit of bad day, allthough they got it running. Can't find the new changes on the front wing though, looks 'stock' to me...
Can you point out what you found plz ?