youre shaping the narrative with a single frame. you could see max divebombed into the corner.wogx wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:36https://i.redd.it/j1ubtr3rmrz91.jpg
VER was alongside, HAM left no space.
youre shaping the narrative with a single frame. you could see max divebombed into the corner.wogx wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:36https://i.redd.it/j1ubtr3rmrz91.jpg
VER was alongside, HAM left no space.
Two big caveats there which the stewards implied as the reason for the penalty and the points.chrisc90 wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:44Yep:
As per the rulebook.
For overtaking on the inside of a corner
In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.
When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tyres are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.
I will never understand this argument. Hamilton got an even more severe penalty for Silverstone, it just got erased by the red flag and the FIA's awful procedure.
ham did get a penalty for that did he? max does the same thing and gets let off?AR3-GP wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:45So like Silverstone then?GrizzleBoy wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:45Going too fast and at the wrong angle into a corner to get alongside and bouncing off the car on your outside to get your nose around is an arcade video game racing move.wogx wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:36https://i.redd.it/j1ubtr3rmrz91.jpg
VER was alongside, HAM left no space.
Max earned a 5 second time penalty. Atleast in the context of Silverstone, the stewards were consistent. Maybe not in the severity of the penalty (since perhaps it didn't end Hamilton's race).cplchanb wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:48ham did get a penalty for that did he? max does the same thing and gets let off?AR3-GP wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:45So like Silverstone then?GrizzleBoy wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:45
Going too fast and at the wrong angle into a corner to get alongside and bouncing off the car on your outside to get your nose around is an arcade video game racing move.
I hadn't thought of it specifically in these terms - are you saying that if they feel they are racing a "fair" driver that they behave fairly, whereas racing an "unfair" driver it's a free for all? (Genuine question, not trying to put words in your mouth)Edax wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:44
The problem is that neither Hamilton or Verstappen back off when they see a line which they feel entitled to take. When you have a driver like Leclerc around them, they make space even though they perhaps shouldn’t. But when you have the two together contact is more or less a given.
cant really read your stance. are you blaming max or ham?
No. I think Max learned from Silverstone last year what to do when you have something to lose (how he raced Leclerc in the beginning of the year) and taking more risk when you don't have anything to lose (today). Interestingly I feel Hamilton took the opposite lesson perhaps out of frustration and it was poor timing because he could have won if he simply conceded, regardless of whether or not Verstappen was wrong to try and stick his nose there.the poster below wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:48I hadn't thought of it specifically in these terms - are you saying that if they feel they are racing a "fair" driver that they behave fairly, whereas racing an "unfair" driver it's a free for all? (Genuine question, not trying to put words in your mouth)Edax wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:44
The problem is that neither Hamilton or Verstappen back off when they see a line which they feel entitled to take. When you have a driver like Leclerc around them, they make space even though they perhaps shouldn’t. But when you have the two together contact is more or less a given.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/
They definitely driver differently around each other, although it is hard to say if that's because it's specifically Max and Hamilton or the fact that they are the stiffest competition either faces. Like, Max has looked like he was on cruise control from San Marino to now, but as soon as the Mercs looked good again this weekend he started to drive more aggressively. Similarly Lewis was basically unchallenged from 2017-2020 so it was easy for him to make friendly passes on everyone.the poster below wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:48I hadn't thought of it specifically in these terms - are you saying that if they feel they are racing a "fair" driver that they behave fairly, whereas racing an "unfair" driver it's a free for all? (Genuine question, not trying to put words in your mouth)
I have likewise tried to point this out elsewhere. Hamilton made this discovery years ago. Why did he go against his sage advice today?chrisc90 wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:53https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/
Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose
Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.
"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.
"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."
Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...
Absolutely nothing as the two aren't related. One is regarding a back marker and the other is the 2nd corner on the opening lap fighting for second place!chrisc90 wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:53https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/
Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose
Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.
"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.
"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."
Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...
graham.reeds wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:59Absolutely nothing as the two aren't related. One is regarding a back marker and the other is the 2nd corner on the opening lap fighting for second place!chrisc90 wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:53https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... 7/5284947/
Hamilton said immediately post-race he would have handled it differently to Verstappen and reiterated later that the Red Bull driver should have left more space given Ocon had "nothing to lose
Of course you don't want to cause an incident, but in those scenarios you give each other space, it's so simple to give each other space.
"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.
"You've got to acknowledge the fact that he may be there - 'I'm going to leave extra space, because actually he's in a different race to me'."
Wonder what Hamilton makes of his comments from 2018...
Well if he is NOT a backmarker, then one should definetely not assume he's going to back off, no?"You can never assume that the person's not up your inside, because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off.
Suggest you read the article where Whiting says:graham.reeds wrote: ↑13 Nov 2022, 23:59
Absolutely nothing as the two aren't related. One is regarding a back marker and the other is the 2nd corner on the opening lap fighting for second place!