2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

[epo]

Chandhok got it spot on, it was always Leclerc intention as he had no chance :

"Here’s my view... Back in the day, the driver on the outside would have to back out and realise when he’s been beaten. Now, they can keep going, knowing that they can use the asphalt run off and then hope that the argument about “being squeezed off” wins in the stewards room...."

https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... Flive-blog

[dtro]

Now that Max's win is going to stand, I wonder what Alonso is up to these days

First Honda win in F1 since 1992? Honda be thinking "Alonso who?"

[roon]

I open my morning paper to find that a RB-Honda has won a GP. Very impressive! Congrats to both halves of that arrangement.

[f1316]

Now that Max's win is going to stand, I wonder what Alonso is up to these days

First Honda win in F1 since 1992? Honda be thinking "Alonso who?"

2006 with Button in Hungary to be fair

[Cuky]

Chandhok got it spot on, it was always Leclerc intention as he had no chance :

"Here’s my view... Back in the day, the driver on the outside would have to back out and realise when he’s been beaten. Now, they can keep going, knowing that they can use the asphalt run off and then hope that the argument about “being squeezed off” wins in the stewards room...."

https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... Flive-blog

And when you're Hamilton or Verstappen your argument usually wins. See Austria 2016 and Germany 2016

[Steven]

Chandhok got it spot on, it was always Leclerc intention as he had no chance :

"Here’s my view... Back in the day, the driver on the outside would have to back out and realise when he’s been beaten. Now, they can keep going, knowing that they can use the asphalt run off and then hope that the argument about “being squeezed off” wins in the stewards room...."

https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... Flive-blog

Exactly. It used to be very normal for the inside driver to just go as deep as possible, to avoid the outside car to attempt to turn in.
The outside car usually then opts to cut in early, and try to get a better drive out of the corner to recover from the dive bomb.

In any case, the outside of the corner is always the vulnerable position, hence I don't understand why Leclerc didn't even attempt to hold the inside line for braking, especially after he was almost nailed in the previous two laps as well.

Overall, this was a good race, with Verstappen's botched start a blessing for the remaining 71 laps

[f1316]

I think it’s right that this kind of thing is not punished - when viewed in isolation, I think it’s bad for racing if something like this is punished - so kinda relieved, even as a Ferrari fan, that there’s no punishment here. Don’t want to win that way.

But the wider context of how penalties are or are not given is totally confusing - it’s never clear if we have a ‘let them race’ mentality, with context etc. playing a part, or if it’s a strict ‘this is the rule as defined and we enforce accordingly’ view. I much prefer the former but somehow someone’s got to make sense of how it all works - I remember many years ago we had a steward who served at every race to try and promote consistency...maybe that would help?

Two other observations:
- I don’t understand why it was necessary for Max to open up the steering as he did - he had the inside line and the run out anyway; sometimes I think he likes the bumper cars aspect, which is probably also a bit troubling

- don’t understand why Charles didn’t cover the inside line; obvious Max would come up the inside and, although he made it work the previous lap, that was not a sustainable defence

[sosic2121]

EDIT: looking at it myself, Rosberg did not bother to turn in and just rammed into Hamilton.

And what if show you a picture of Nico's steering wheel pointing to the right just before the contact.
And then I show you a picture of Lewis steering wheel on full lock right.
And then bird view picture showing there is 1 meter of track between Hamilton and white line in the moment of contact.

Would you still believed Rosberg rammed into Hamilton?

[LM10]

Chandhok got it spot on, it was always Leclerc intention as he had no chance :

"Here’s my view... Back in the day, the driver on the outside would have to back out and realise when he’s been beaten. Now, they can keep going, knowing that they can use the asphalt run off and then hope that the argument about “being squeezed off” wins in the stewards room...."

https://twitter.com/karunchandhok/statu ... Flive-blog

Exactly. It used to be very normal for the inside driver to just go as deep as possible, to avoid the outside car to attempt to turn in.
The outside car usually then opts to cut in early, and try to get a better drive out of the corner to recover from the dive bomb.

In any case, the outside of the corner is always the vulnerable position, hence I don't understand why Leclerc didn't even attempt to hold the inside line for braking, especially after he was almost nailed in the previous two laps as well.

Overall, this was a good race, with Verstappen's botched start a blessing for the remaining 71 laps

This is the exact same thing which Rosberg did in this example:

https://mobile.twitter.com/_TheF1Gamer/ ... 7596320771

Rosberg got a penalty for this.

[jjn9128]

So what was the decisive difference between the situation of Max and Rosberg at the same spot in 2016 when Rosberg got a 5 seconds penalty and the today’s one?

I don't personally have formed an opinion about that, but for reference here is the 2016 incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixmGVL4dedI

2019 incident:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABKY6nbKIL4

EDIT: looking at it myself, Rosberg did not bother to turn in and just rammed into Hamilton. Verstappen did actually turned in and just had very minor contact with Leclerc. I'm still not sure myself if Verstappen deserved a penalty or not, but in Rosberg's case it was much more severe.

Totally different - in 2016 Hamilton was already ahead on the brakes on entry - not that I thought that was a penalty at the time as it was similar to other moves through '14/'15 and '16. That's the problem with trying to write a rule for similar cases because there are so many minute variations it's never a clear and direct comparison.

IMO this sort of move is the anathema of racing. To drive up the inside and push the other guy off (he did open the steering) on the exit to stop them coming back. What we got the lap (or 2 maybe highlights missed a lap) was racing. 1 guy overtook then the other guy came back on the gas and the fight carried on. That's racing. That's the wheel-to-wheel action we so desperately need more of.

I don't want penalties deciding races, but if we're rigidly enforcing rules as in Canada then this was a case of crowding another car off the circuit.

[dans79]

EDIT: looking at it myself, Rosberg did not bother to turn in and just rammed into Hamilton.

And what if show you a picture of Nico's steering wheel pointing to the right just before the contact.
And then I show you a picture of Lewis steering wheel on full lock right.
And then bird view picture showing there is 1 meter of track between Hamilton and white line in the moment of contact.

Would you still believed Rosberg rammed into Hamilton?

I think you completely missed the point. what Nico did was basically try and prevent Lewis making the turn at all.

if you can't tell the difference between that incident, and the one today, you are going to be unhappy with most stewards decisions.

[dtro]

Now that Max's win is going to stand, I wonder what Alonso is up to these days

First Honda win in F1 since 1992? Honda be thinking "Alonso who?"

2006 with Button in Hungary to be fair

I stand corrected! Still a thirteen year winless streak ended!

[sosic2121]

EDIT: looking at it myself, Rosberg did not bother to turn in and just rammed into Hamilton.

And what if show you a picture of Nico's steering wheel pointing to the right just before the contact.
And then I show you a picture of Lewis steering wheel on full lock right.
And then bird view picture showing there is 1 meter of track between Hamilton and white line in the moment of contact.

Would you still believed Rosberg rammed into Hamilton?

I think you completely missed the point. what Nico did was basically try and prevent Lewis making the turn at all.

if you can't tell the difference between that incident, and the one today, you are going to be unhappy with most stewards decisions.

o i can see difference between guy pushing other guy toward the white line and over the white line.

[jz11]

it used to be simple - if there is a car beside you, you have to leave cars width of space till the while line, you can't just ignore that someone is next to you and push the other one off the track, inside, outside, entry, apex, exit, doesn't matter, the other guy is beside you, you account for that

this just opened up a can of worms... next thing they will do is do this on the straight line, just wait...

IMHO the decision was this way just because they already had one controversy where stewards decided race outcome, and they simply didn't want another one, but consistency wise - this just doesn't follow the path they were on

[zac510]

Leclerc should have just drive wide out onto the tarmac, around the yellow sausage kerb and then flat out back onto the circuit, just like Zhou in the F2 Sprint and Raikkonen did in 2018.