2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

[Oleo]

When you have 3 place grid penalty and you are passed by 4 other drivers as a result (Gasly, Alonso, Norris and Sainz are past Bottas). How does that work?

[subcritical71]

I’m not usually a big fan of Bottas, but saying he accepts the penalty shows me a lot. With rules it should not matter that the driver did not see the flag. Next thing you know teams will be pushing to not penalize drivers who overdrive their cars into a corner and push another off track…. Oh wait.

[AeroDynamic]

I don't think Alonso will willy nilly get too extreme, this s his best opportunity to get a podium in YEARS and many points. Hes fighting Pierre, and Pierre should be thinking the same. It's Alpine and Alpha Tauri in the fight for the championship standings. Taking out yourself and MCS is shooting oneself in the foot for stupidity.

[siskue2005]

I don't understand how Bottas ended up P6? Are these penalties given out simultaneously?

He was 3rd + 3.

If they applied Max penalty first then bottas should be 5th as he would be 2nd with Max penalty Max should be 7th
If bottas was applied first then he should be 6 and Max 7th

So I don't know which order they applied penalty

[101FlyingDutchman]

But this done an hour before a race. Come on. I don’t mind penalties. Stewards are there for a reason but this is now become a laughing stock. No consistency and timelines you can only shake your head at. Something needs to change as it’s spoiling the racing big time

[dans79]

Horner is blaming it on a rogue marshal who threw a flag without being told to! Laying it on thick and saying how hard done by they are.

Imagine that he doesn't understand the rules!

[TimW]

When you have 3 place grid penalty and you are passed by 4 other drivers as a result (Gasly, Alonso, Norris and Sainz are past Bottas). How does that work?

3+3=6. He moved back 3 grid positions.

[BlueCheetah66]

I don't understand how Bottas ended up P6? Are these penalties given out simultaneously?

He was 3rd + 3.

If they applied Max penalty first then bottas should be 5th as he would be 2nd with Max penalty Max should be 7th
If bottas was applied first then he should be 6 and Max 7th

So I don't know which order they applied penalty

Since 2018, All drivers are shuffled up after all penalties are applied. So Bottas would always start at 6th and Max at 7th, then all the other places are filled

[AeroDynamic]

But this done an hour before a race. Come on. I don’t mind penalties. Stewards are there for a reason but this is now become a laughing stock. No consistency and timelines you can only shake your head at. Something needs to change as it’s spoiling the racing big time

I agree, I don't understand the delay, the only rash theory I Can throw out there, is they let them know earlier than we saw on the TV, and they just delayed the public from knowing to drop it in the show, because it spices up the live show? like for example, I don't think its a coincidence the decision on MCS appeal was dropped ruing the Horner-Wolff square up in the conference.

[nevill3]

Bottas has been shafted by the stewards once more, the penalties should be applied in the order they are committed so he should have gone to 6th then moved up to 5th when Max received his penalty

[Juzh]

Is that the trace recorded by the car or is it based on the engine sound in video? The stewards have the actual throttle sensor trace which is obviously the most accurate evidence, even though the video analyses you do are obviously also very good.

This is data straight from the teams, just with lower resolution. From my testing it's able to capture lifts of 1-2% that lasted no longer than 0.1s-0.2s. So even if sainz magically fell into this time window it's still nowhere near enough to get him off the hook. FIA was simply duped by ferrari in this case. Hats off the them.

The throttle data is available from the teams?

Yes. Teams give live data from the cars to FOM (and fia obviously), FOM takes this data and sends it on to their official F1 app. Some smart people have reverse engineered this transport protocol and were able to extract every piece of info that comes out of there. That's why lately you've been able to see a bunch of fan generated data and plots that were previously confined only to team's own analysis, fia and fom.

This is the tool in question: https://github.com/theOehrly/Fast-F1
It's author is also on this forum (oehrly). Really all credit should be given to him for all these plots that you see circulating on various sites.

[Noble29]

Yes, 3+3 is 6, but if someone infront of you gets demoted behind you, you move up 1? 3+3 = 6 and then -1 is 5.
Or apply Max's first and he goes from 3-1 = 2, then +3 = 5.

So grid penalties are all applied at once and dont take into account other people getting penalties? Is it just grid penalties for mechanical reasons that do them individually then?

[Tizz]

So FIa not penalizing Sainz to help Max against Bottas!

You read the stewards verdict at all ?

[MtthsMlw]

Yes, 3+3 is 6, but if someone infront of you gets demoted behind you, you move up 1? 3+3 = 6 and then -1 is 5.
Or apply Max's first and he goes from 3-1 = 2, then +3 = 5.

So grid penalties are all applied at once and dont take into account other people getting penalties? Is it just grid penalties for mechanical reasons that do them individually then?

To me it looks like the rules make sure you start X amount of places behind the one you've qualified for
3+3 and 2+5

[mzivtins]

Yes, 3+3 is 6, but if someone infront of you gets demoted behind you, you move up 1? 3+3 = 6 and then -1 is 5.
Or apply Max's first and he goes from 3-1 = 2, then +3 = 5.

So grid penalties are all applied at once and dont take into account other people getting penalties? Is it just grid penalties for mechanical reasons that do them individually then?

To me it looks like the rules make sure you start X amount of places behind the one you've qualified for
3+3 and 2+5

What would the positions be if max qualied p1? Would he be 6th?