2012 European GP - Valencia

[Mandrake]

Did anyone think Senna's penalty was unfair? (Think it was Senna) basically the car that went to take the normal line into a corner, clipped the front wing of the car behind? If I'm wrong let me know.

Well it's the same spatial unawareness Massa and Hamilton have been accused of several times last season. The Sauber (?) behind went to take the inside line while Senna never watched if anyone was lining up next to him. He should have watched because he was going slower than normally, so it was easier for a car to get close and by.

As he went into the slipstream he caused an avoidable accident and was punished accordingly.

[thatnoone]

Did anyone think Senna's penalty was unfair? (Think it was Senna) basically the car that went to take the normal line into a corner, clipped the front wing of the car behind? If I'm wrong let me know.

Well it's the same spatial unawareness Massa and Hamilton have been accused of several times last season. The Sauber (?) behind went to take the inside line while Senna never watched if anyone was lining up next to him. He should have watched because he was going slower than normally, so it was easier for a car to get close and by.

As he went into the slipstream he caused an avoidable accident and was punished accordingly.

I thought the penalty was not fair. It seemed to me a racing incident. Similar also to Spa with Hamilton.
It looked like Kobayashi used KERS to get close but it was Senna's line to take.
Kobayashi wasn't even half-way ahead of him. Senna was hurryin' Kimi to a mistake.

[SiLo]

That's what I thought, Kobayashi just wasn't far enough along to try for the overtake, and the difference in speed wasn't that great either.

[raymondu999]

To me I see it as a racing incident. I think (without the benefit of any other data) Senna just thought no one was alongside him, and took his normal racing line. I think that corner is one that most drivers take differing lines. Vettel for example seems to just ignore the wall on the right kink and just does a smooth arc from the exit of 5. Senna's "natural" line maybe just that? I don't know.

[HVS5b]

I kinda thought he tried to close the door way too late, worthy of being penalised imo.

[beelsebob]

I kinda thought he tried to close the door way too late, worthy of being penalised imo.

Can't really get earlier than driving from the apex to the edge of the track. It's a traction zone, it's not hard for the other guy to drop behind there, the reason you don't go all the way to the edge of the track in a breaking zone is because you can't guarentee that the other guy can slow down any more (in fact, he probably can't).

[FrukostScones]

regarding Vettel's and Grosjean's DNF:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100770

[marcush.]

so ..they had clear evidence of the alternator overheating ...slashing huge chunks of life expectancy from the unit at an alarming rate ....rule of thumb :10°C more equals halfing the service life..at some point (usually 170°C) for internal components the the life of capacitors is measured in minutes ....and you can expect sudden complete failure of the component a raise in ambient temperature is equalling a decrease in delta T so with rising ambient your difficulties to cool the component are dramnatically rocketing ...but obviously only two of the cars were affected...wa sit Schumacher "luck" or just the risk of using the alternator at those types of temps..we might never know.
As Renault already considers using older spec alternators one can assume saome component is no longer available and it was decided to use a second supplier or a lesser grade of component /maybe from a different (unknown or less reliable) source.
Any ways they are aware of the root cause methinks and act accordingly after realising they have misjudged risks involved.

[Nando]

Interesting how Vettel in clean air can overheat his alternator yet Webber in traffic with little to no engine cooling for most of the lap manages just fine. Kimi as well.

Perhaps just coincidence but it sure is interesting.

[beelsebob]

Interesting how Vettel in clean air can overheat his alternator yet Webber in traffic with little to no engine cooling for most of the lap manages just fine. Kimi as well.

Perhaps just coincidence but it sure is interesting.

Presumably, Vettel was racing an engine with an alternator from renault's supposed bad batch, while Webber (and kimi) weren't

[Ray]

Interesting how Vettel in clean air can overheat his alternator yet Webber in traffic with little to no engine cooling for most of the lap manages just fine. Kimi as well.

Perhaps just coincidence but it sure is interesting.

Presumably, Vettel was racing an engine with an alternator from renault's supposed bad batch, while Webber (and kimi) weren't

This makes the most sense because we all know that Webber usually doesn't get the bleeding edge parts, and they are talking about going back to an older spec. I'm thinking Webber got the older spec while Vettel got the new shiny one.

[Ray]

Hopefully Silverstone will be just as good. Though, the new layout still confuses the hell out of me. Even after 100+ laps in F1 2011 I never really know what's coming up while on the parts of the old circuit.

Glad to see I am not alone on that.

I have zero recall of most of that circuit outside of a couple of spots.

I always get super confused coming out of Woodcote, and then I'm all screwed up for the rest of the lap. Racing around Valencia in F1 2011 makes me hate this track even more. There's nothing to see, no elevation change and a weird flow that I can never get any rhythm to. I can't imagine driving the real thing is any real fun, or even barely exhilarating. It's got to be almost boring. No wonder they crash into each other, they need some excitement.

[andartop]

When you've done 100 laps on a track and you still can't really tell straight away which corner is which because they all look the same there is a problem!

The last sector is fun though!

[Hail22]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ1CPhi3sn4[/youtube]

On board Comparison lap

[Cam]

That's a good video of the 4 different drivers. It's interesting, Vettel seems to hit most of the slower corners significantly faster than the other 3. On the long straight he's about 5km/h slower than Alonso, so top speed isn't what's making him quick. He's making up time in each and every corner.