Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Richard]

I agree, we normally see gold foil on cold surfaces to protect them from heat. For example the inside of engine covers where they are close to the exhausts.

Also radiator and oil coolant pipes don't have insulation because heat loss is welcomed.

The only reason to insulate is to avoid heat gain, so it will be the cooled air pipe. The insulation is important because if it wasn't insulated they'd need a bigger intercooler to compensate.

[trinidefender]

Todays Omnicorse reports that there was Mclaren Honda technical sumit yesterday in Sakura to define lines of development for Barcelona and ongoing season. They say that compressor inside V is actually centrifugal, its too small and temperatures inside are to high to manage various electrical problems they are encountering and that MGUH cant fully charge, similar problem to last years Ferrari solution.

They also mention that engineers at Woking are willing to ease on package tightness for extra cooling required for more power to be available. So therefore in Barcelona there will come bigger ERS radiators and intercooler.

Source?

[Redragon]

Todays Omnicorse reports that there was Mclaren Honda technical sumit yesterday in Sakura to define lines of development for Barcelona and ongoing season. They say that compressor inside V is actually centrifugal, its too small and temperatures inside are to high to manage various electrical problems they are encountering and that MGUH cant fully charge, similar problem to last years Ferrari solution.

They also mention that engineers at Woking are willing to ease on package tightness for extra cooling required for more power to be available. So therefore in Barcelona there will come bigger ERS radiators and intercooler.

Source?

As he stated Omnicorse, sorry I can't attached link as I am writing from a mobile. I take with a pinch of salt the article, especially when he compares top speeds between Vettel and Alonso.

[CBeck113]

Todays Omnicorse reports that there was Mclaren Honda technical sumit yesterday in Sakura to define lines of development for Barcelona and ongoing season. They say that compressor inside V is actually centrifugal, its too small and temperatures inside are to high to manage various electrical problems they are encountering and that MGUH cant fully charge, similar problem to last years Ferrari solution.

They also mention that engineers at Woking are willing to ease on package tightness for extra cooling required for more power to be available. So therefore in Barcelona there will come bigger ERS radiators and intercooler.

Source?

They (Omnicorse) won't name their sources, like any other news org, so that we (the readers) can't tell the difference from what they think to what is actually fact. We can chose to ignore them for this, or continue to read & make our own hypothesis about what they write. Since we usually choose the latter, they can continue with this poor reporting practice, and we can keep guessing.

[ferkan]

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/53297/ ... n-ricarica

[atlantis]

Here's the report http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/53297/ ... n-ricarica
No source cited.
Seems a bit too smoky.

[gingernibbler]

Multi-stage compressors are not permitted by the regulations. So stating "there are a series of smaller fans along a shaft." is against the regulations. There will only be one rotor and one stator set of blades -if- it is an axial compressor.

The article is nice, with a lot of good information. A lot of it I agree with: the variable intake trumpets, the ES combined with the controls, and the MGUH placement. The characteristics of an axial compressor are also valid, but for multi-stage compressors.

It depends how you read what a stage of an axial flow comp or turbine actually means. A rotor followed by a stator is the usual explanation.
If you build 3 rotors counter rotating you can eliminate 2 stators thus having on 1 stator. You still only have 1 stage as you have a rotor set followed by a stator. Obviously you'd need 3 shafts rotating inside each other (like a mini gas turbine) and only the HP could turn the MGU H.

[FrukostScones]

yeah, like investigative(F1)journalism needs to cite a source
all rumors and lies then... I know!

[PlatinumZealot]

Edit: Interesting


So why didnt they follw the Merc route which offers great compacity, shorter pipework, heat management..?

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-c ... ac0986.jpg

I have a feeling this is the version 1 engine. When arair was quizzed on it he said the engine is similar to the Mercedes... I am sorta half expecting that this first engine was just a testbed for the ERS systems and Honda was preserving it in order to get more time to finish developing the "split" turbine... All they would have to do is modify the oil tank... Just a hunch though.

[PlatinumZealot]

Multi-stage compressors are not permitted by the regulations. So stating "there are a series of smaller fans along a shaft." is against the regulations. There will only be one rotor and one stator set of blades -if- it is an axial compressor.

The article is nice, with a lot of good information. A lot of it I agree with: the variable intake trumpets, the ES combined with the controls, and the MGUH placement. The characteristics of an axial compressor are also valid, but for multi-stage compressors.

It depends how you read what a stage of an axial flow comp or turbine actually means. A rotor followed by a stator is the usual explanation.
If you build 3 rotors counter rotating you can eliminate 2 stators thus having on 1 stator. You still only have 1 stage as you have a rotor set followed by a stator. Obviously you'd need 3 shafts rotating inside each other (like a mini gas turbine) and only the HP could turn the MGU H.

Stators do not do work. And two step changes in compression is two stages. You would be hard pressed to fool the FIA engineers on that one.

[PlatinumZealot]

Here's the report http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/53297/ ... n-ricarica
No source cited.
Seems a bit too smoky.

Meh... they just probably saw Scarbs' article and added their own twist to it.

[dren]

Honda has a lot of engineers attending and is giving many speeches at the SAE conference going on currently. I wouldn't be surprised if the omnicourse article has merit.

[ringo]

The reason why Scarb's guess may be incorrect though, is that the turbine is much lower than he assumes.
This would not make sense if the compressor was in the V, as they need to be coaxial no?
If the compressor was in the V then we would see the turbine housing more clearly from those pictures. We aren't seeing any of that.Instead we see the exhaust pipe coming up from below.
I will sketch up what i think is happening with this engine...

[GoranF1]

What Omnicourse is suggesting is bassicaly a fundamental mistake whit design,and yet Arai said after all the problems they had,the MP4-30 will be a winner by the end of year.
I chose to belive Japanese over Italians every day!

[SiLo]

What Omnicourse is suggesting is bassicaly a fundamental mistake whit design,and yet Arai said after all the problems they had,the MP4-30 will be a winner by the end of year.
I chose to belive Japanese over Italians every day!

You might want to get on the betting sites then because I can assure you, those odds are very good at the moment.