Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[Just_a_fan]

And Vettel didn't face 3, but take 4 Championships? (Hamilton, Schumacher, Alonso)

He raced against them but not in the same car, that's the point.

I see. The subjective dick measuring of favorite drivers, no matter what car, has always made my teeth itch.

The discussion was about team mates, not general driver comparison.

[TAG]

It's February in Australia, time to move off all this silliness and into the winter testing thread.

[langedweil]

It's February in Australia, time to move off all this silliness and into the winter testing thread.

Salut to that ..

[NathanOlder]

Just here thinking and for 2021 I really want to see....

Ham & Ric - Merc
Lec & Bot - Ferrari
Ver & Vet - RB
Sai & Nor - Mclaren
Alo & Oco - Renault

all 5 teams winning multiple races in 2021

and winning the midfield by a mile....

Per & Rus - Aston Martin

[selvam_e2002]

Just here thinking and for 2021 I really want to see....

Ham & Ric - Merc
Lec & Bot - Ferrari
Ver & Vet - RB
Sai & Nor - Mclaren
Alo & Oco - Renault

all 5 teams winning multiple races in 2021

and winning the midfield by a mile....

Per & Rus - Aston Martin

It seems good, but Ferrari will look for Champion ship driver along side with Lecrec. So, I don't believe Bottas will be in Mercedes. I think he will be replaced with Russel in Williams.

Ferrari either pick Ham or stick with Vettel.

Alonso is a wildcard for Ferrari and Mercedes. Else he won't come back atall even with Renault. It does not make any sense for him to comeback to fight for midfield.

As he is going to use Honda for Indy with Andretti so, He may land in RB as well replacing Albon. This could be also possible but chances are very slim.

[PlatinumZealot]

Most realistic seat for Alonso?
Does Santander still back him?

Sauber
Haas
Williams
Renault
McLaren

[raymondu999]

I doubt McLaren is on the cards given how Zak keeps saying Sainz - Norris is their future, and how he rescinded his ambassadorship of McLaren.

Renault I’m sure still have people who bear a soft spot for Alonso - but I don’t get who they would change. Ocon? Seems like he was also selected so the board would have a French name in the books. Ricciardo? They’ve spent too much buck signing him as their star driver to not want to keep him. Of course the other option is probably if Ricciardo has ditched them to go back to a winning car - so Renault signs him as the old master, teaching the young understudy Ocon.

Sauber/Alfa - who knows. Maybe Ferrari would consider placing him there so they can evaluate Alonso for a potential Ferrari return? That’s the only scenario I see this working as. But then - Leclerc is pretty clearly (for the moment) their future bet. Would they risk destabilising that for an Alonso return?

Williams - do they have the money to hire him? And would Alonso bother spending so much time with another “revival” project? The last time he tried with McLaren it did not bode well with his patience.

Haas - no clue. I think Steiner operates in a very unpredictable fashion

[dtro]

Alonso is as over the hill as Valentino Rossi is in MotoGP. No F1 team will make the same mistake as Yamaha unless they can get him at a steal and his ego comes at a premium.

[raymondu999]

Alonso is as over the hill as Valentino Rossi is in MotoGP. No F1 team will make the same mistake as Yamaha unless they can get him at a steal and his ego comes at a premium.

I have absolutely 0 knowledge of MotoGP or their silly season. But from what I’m aware of, as incredible as his MotoGP title record is; didn’t his last title come like a decade ago? And his last win years ago?

It “feels” like if that is the case, Rossi is mostly still around for the “legacy” and “nostalgia?” In a sad way, like Michael was at Mercedes.

[Manoah2u]

Alonso is as over the hill as Valentino Rossi is in MotoGP. No F1 team will make the same mistake as Yamaha unless they can get him at a steal and his ego comes at a premium.

I have absolutely 0 knowledge of MotoGP or their silly season. But from what I’m aware of, as incredible as his MotoGP title record is; didn’t his last title come like a decade ago? And his last win years ago?

It “feels” like if that is the case, Rossi is mostly still around for the “legacy” and “nostalgia?” In a sad way, like Michael was at Mercedes.

People still don't get Schumacher's mercedes 'saga' at all.
There's much more there then people realize and Schumi actually achieved and impressive stint there either way.

Schumacher 'retired' from F1 at Ferrari at a respectable moment.
He knew he passed the peak of his career, and even if he would manage another win and perhaps somehow
another title in the (near) future, his career would still be going 'downwards' after that, so he decided to step out
in the right moment instead of getting dumped by Ferrari in an inevitable future.

At that moment, there really wasn't anything interesting in a different team, not because there wouldn't neccesarily be a WDC/WCC capable team for him, but because the simple truth is he would be leaving Ferrari, the top of the line at or right after the peak of his career. So again, it was the wise decision to stop from F1 right there.

People seriously underestimate his MotoGP (test) crash. The injuries he sustained there were far more grave then is taken for granted, reports have indicated that it resulted in a neck artery issue and the blood flow to the brains were influenced and a certain amount of damage occurred. I am not aware if this news came out around that time, but i missed it back then, but i catched it from Schumacher's personal medical doctor in an interview after his unfortunate skiing accident which has left him in the worst of conditions.

In any case, the interview mentioned it left him with a certain amount of (permanent) damage. That means that when Schumacher returned to F1 with Mercedes, that he physically wasn't really the same Schumi. Funny enough, that is exactly what Luca DiMontezemolo and other people (from Ferrari then still) mentioned, which was taken with a sense of 'Red Pride', but imho, has a different meaning IF Luca, a close friend of Schumi, knew about his injuries.

If we then look at Schumacher returning, with his other good friend Ross Brawn with Mercedes, due to really nothing but the right circumstances and a returned motivation, and how things panned out, it's really not as bad as the results indicate. It was clear that Schumi did have fun with his Mercedes run. He DID get a pole position in Monaco with the Mercedes, despite the car being far from how it is now. What they were doing essentially was not much different from his start at Ferrari, but even then Ferrari in 96 was in a better competitive situation than Mercedes was in 2010.

It takes time to build a winning formula/concept, and they were working on that. I am fully confident that Schumacher contributed massively to Mercedes' current success.
Even more, people probably don't realise that had Michael decided to stay with Mercedes, 100% guaranteed
he would have gotten a couple more of titles with them, absolutely certain.

So then why did he back out/retire? Well, i think that he 'forgot' the intense pressure of F1, especially for somebody with his legacy, the intense rythm (read: no social life) that success carries, were simply something that he didn't want to put himself and his family though again for a long duration of time, paired to the fact he's older and again, probably in a less fit level due to his former injuries, wearing a lot more on him. Mercedes probably also had pressure on him and were certainly discussing heralding in Hamilton's arrival, and i think Schumacher didn't want to face Lewis in the same team, probably getting beaten by a young gun 'rookie' with Senna-esque edges around him.

I believe that had Toto Wolff and Lauda been there with Schumacher before, perhaps chances would have been bigger he decided to stay, but still, had Hamilton (or Alonso) arrived, that wouldn't made any difference.

That means the simple fact that Schumacher got out of what he spend years on building, right before he could reap the fruits of his hard effort, which imho is the saddest part of it all.

[dtro]

Alonso is as over the hill as Valentino Rossi is in MotoGP. No F1 team will make the same mistake as Yamaha unless they can get him at a steal and his ego comes at a premium.

I have absolutely 0 knowledge of MotoGP or their silly season. But from what I’m aware of, as incredible as his MotoGP title record is; didn’t his last title come like a decade ago? And his last win years ago?

It “feels” like if that is the case, Rossi is mostly still around for the “legacy” and “nostalgia?” In a sad way, like Michael was at Mercedes.

I'm sure that just like Alonso, Rossi at least a few years ago genuinely believed he could still win a title (even with Marc Marquez dragging elbows around every corner). The last few years have felt tough to watch with either the bike under performing or Rossi underperforming.

Point is I don't think any team would snatch Alonso up when he's basically in the same boat with different sails. His last title was more than a decade ago, his last win ages ago, his last competitive car before 2014.

[PlatinumZealot]

[quote=Manoah2u post_id=882531 time=1580718235 user_id=17366]

People still don't get Schumacher's mercedes 'saga' at all.
There's much more there then people realize and Schumi actually achieved and impressive stint there either way.

Schumacher 'retired' from F1 at Ferrari at a respectable moment.
He knew he passed the peak of his career, and even if he would manage another win and perhaps somehow
another title in the (near) future, his career would still be going 'downwards' after that, so he decided to step out
in the right moment instead of getting dumped by Ferrari in an inevitable future.

At that moment, there really wasn't anything interesting in a different team, not because there wouldn't neccesarily be a WDC/WCC capable team for him, but because the simple truth is he would be leaving Ferrari, the top of the line at or right after the peak of his career. So again, it was the wise decision to stop from F1 right there.

People seriously underestimate his MotoGP (test) crash. The injuries he sustained there were far more grave then is taken for granted, reports have indicated that it resulted in a neck artery issue and the blood flow to the brains were influenced and a certain amount of damage occurred. I am not aware if this news came out around that time, but i missed it back then, but i catched it from Schumacher's personal medical doctor in an interview after his unfortunate skiing accident which has left him in the worst of conditions.

In any case, the interview mentioned it left him with a certain amount of (permanent) damage. That means that when Schumacher returned to F1 with Mercedes, that he physically wasn't really the same Schumi. Funny enough, that is exactly what Luca DiMontezemolo and other people (from Ferrari then still) mentioned, which was taken with a sense of 'Red Pride', but imho, has a different meaning IF Luca, a close friend of Schumi, knew about his injuries.

If we then look at Schumacher returning, with his other good friend Ross Brawn with Mercedes, due to really nothing but the right circumstances and a returned motivation, and how things panned out, it's really not as bad as the results indicate. It was clear that Schumi did have fun with his Mercedes run. He DID get a pole position in Monaco with the Mercedes, despite the car being far from how it is now. What they were doing essentially was not much different from his start at Ferrari, but even then Ferrari in 96 was in a better competitive situation than Mercedes was in 2010.

It takes time to build a winning formula/concept, and they were working on that. I am fully confident that Schumacher contributed massively to Mercedes' current success.
Even more, people probably don't realise that had Michael decided to stay with Mercedes, 100% guaranteed
he would have gotten a couple more of titles with them, absolutely certain.

So then why did he back out/retire? Well, i think that he 'forgot' the intense pressure of F1, especially for somebody with his legacy, the intense rythm (read: no social life) that success carries, were simply something that he didn't want to put himself and his family though again for a long duration of time, paired to the fact he's older and again, probably in a less fit level due to his former injuries, wearing a lot more on him. Mercedes probably also had pressure on him and were certainly discussing heralding in Hamilton's arrival, and i think Schumacher didn't want to face Lewis in the same team, probably getting beaten by a young gun 'rookie' with Senna-esque edges around him.

I believe that had Toto Wolff and Lauda been there with Schumacher before, perhaps chances would have been bigger he decided to stay, but still, had Hamilton (or Alonso) arrived, that wouldn't made any difference.

That means the simple fact that Schumacher [b]got out[/b] of what he spend years on building, right before he could reap the fruits of his hard effort, which imho is the saddest part of it all.
[/quote]

Schu wanted to leave because he couldn't take another year of losing to Rosberg. He did a good job of hiding it, but when inquired by Ross and Niki he agreed that it was the best thing to leave before it got worse.
Schu definitle had an input on how the team operated going into 2013 and beyond... But I highly doubt he had any technical input on the engine and chassis into 2014... The car was so different there was just no way.

[Jambier]

Alonso quit F1 when he was still on top, still probably the best guy in race.

There is no reason for him to come back, except having an "offered" title ==> Meaning driving for Mercedes.
So unless Hamilton decides to quit Mercedes I don't see any reason for ALO to be in F1

[Jolle]

People still don't get Schumacher's mercedes 'saga' at all.
There's much more there then people realize and Schumi actually achieved and impressive stint there either way.

Schumacher 'retired' from F1 at Ferrari at a respectable moment.
He knew he passed the peak of his career, and even if he would manage another win and perhaps somehow
another title in the (near) future, his career would still be going 'downwards' after that, so he decided to step out
in the right moment instead of getting dumped by Ferrari in an inevitable future.

At that moment, there really wasn't anything interesting in a different team, not because there wouldn't neccesarily be a WDC/WCC capable team for him, but because the simple truth is he would be leaving Ferrari, the top of the line at or right after the peak of his career. So again, it was the wise decision to stop from F1 right there.

People seriously underestimate his MotoGP (test) crash. The injuries he sustained there were far more grave then is taken for granted, reports have indicated that it resulted in a neck artery issue and the blood flow to the brains were influenced and a certain amount of damage occurred. I am not aware if this news came out around that time, but i missed it back then, but i catched it from Schumacher's personal medical doctor in an interview after his unfortunate skiing accident which has left him in the worst of conditions.

In any case, the interview mentioned it left him with a certain amount of (permanent) damage. That means that when Schumacher returned to F1 with Mercedes, that he physically wasn't really the same Schumi. Funny enough, that is exactly what Luca DiMontezemolo and other people (from Ferrari then still) mentioned, which was taken with a sense of 'Red Pride', but imho, has a different meaning IF Luca, a close friend of Schumi, knew about his injuries.

If we then look at Schumacher returning, with his other good friend Ross Brawn with Mercedes, due to really nothing but the right circumstances and a returned motivation, and how things panned out, it's really not as bad as the results indicate. It was clear that Schumi did have fun with his Mercedes run. He DID get a pole position in Monaco with the Mercedes, despite the car being far from how it is now. What they were doing essentially was not much different from his start at Ferrari, but even then Ferrari in 96 was in a better competitive situation than Mercedes was in 2010.

It takes time to build a winning formula/concept, and they were working on that. I am fully confident that Schumacher contributed massively to Mercedes' current success.
Even more, people probably don't realise that had Michael decided to stay with Mercedes, 100% guaranteed
he would have gotten a couple more of titles with them, absolutely certain.

So then why did he back out/retire? Well, i think that he 'forgot' the intense pressure of F1, especially for somebody with his legacy, the intense rythm (read: no social life) that success carries, were simply something that he didn't want to put himself and his family though again for a long duration of time, paired to the fact he's older and again, probably in a less fit level due to his former injuries, wearing a lot more on him. Mercedes probably also had pressure on him and were certainly discussing heralding in Hamilton's arrival, and i think Schumacher didn't want to face Lewis in the same team, probably getting beaten by a young gun 'rookie' with Senna-esque edges around him.

I believe that had Toto Wolff and Lauda been there with Schumacher before, perhaps chances would have been bigger he decided to stay, but still, had Hamilton (or Alonso) arrived, that wouldn't made any difference.

That means the simple fact that Schumacher got out of what he spend years on building, right before he could reap the fruits of his hard effort, which imho is the saddest part of it all.

Schu wanted to leave because he couldn't take another year of losing to Rosberg. He did a good job of hiding it, but when inquired by Ross and Niki he agreed that it was the best thing to leave before it got worse.
Schu definitle had an input on how the team operated going into 2013 and beyond... But I highly doubt he had any technical input on the engine and chassis into 2014... The car was so different there was just no way.

It is well documented that Schumacher’s exit at Ferrari wasn’t his choice. They signed Raikkonen and more or less forced him out. Same at Mercedes, where with the signing of Hamilton there was no place for Schumacher anymore. The man didn’t want to leave.

As for Alonso, with the Honda block at his Andretti contact he is now cuddling with McLaren again (well, the team that is sponsored by McLaren). Let’s see if for 2021 Mercedes will use their veto...

[Just_a_fan]

Alonso quit F1 when he was still on top, still probably the best guy in race.

There is no reason for him to come back, except having an "offered" title ==> Meaning driving for Mercedes.
So unless Hamilton decides to quit Mercedes I don't see any reason for ALO to be in F1

Alonso left when he was on top? He was driving for a midfield team and hadn't won a race for 5 years (including his last year at Ferrari where he didn't win a race and only got two podiums all year). That's not "on top" by any meaning of the term.