Mclaren Mercedes 2014

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

What will Jenson say now? No grip? Massive understeer? Loss of drive?
I will be loyal to Mclaren until I die, but I'm sick by this driver. Together with Whitmarsh he is the cancer at Mclaren. One was cut in Juanuary, I beg you Ron get out of Mclaren Jenson Button. Because of him Lewis left (Whitmarsh favouring Button), and the direction that he gives the engineers is more weak than a young driver. Barichello gave better feed back, Lewis did, Perez did, and towards the end of the year even Kevin will gave a better direction. Even if he is the oldest he can't give it. If Mclaren want succes they have to fire this guy.

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:What will Jenson say now? No grip? Massive understeer? Loss of drive?
I will be loyal to Mclaren until I die, but I'm sick by this driver. Together with Whitmarsh he is the cancer at Mclaren. One was cut in Juanuary, I beg you Ron get out of Mclaren Jenson Button. Because of him Lewis left (Whitmarsh favouring Button), and the direction that he gives the engineers is more weak than a young driver. Barichello gave better feed back, Lewis did, Perez did, and towards the end of the year even Kevin will gave a better direction. Even if he is the oldest he can't give it. If Mclaren want succes they have to fire this guy.
Lewis left because he could see Merc was a better team slowly building up to its potential. I'm also sick of people scapegoating Whitmarsh. He never once participated in the design teams. That's where the problem is: the design office with their silver bullet design philosophy.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

CjC
CjC
12
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

Poor management allows silver bullet hopes to prosper.

On a side note, young Kev has restored some confidence back into me
Just a fan's point of view

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

Pierce89 wrote:
mclaren_mircea wrote:What will Jenson say now? No grip? Massive understeer? Loss of drive?
I will be loyal to Mclaren until I die, but I'm sick by this driver. Together with Whitmarsh he is the cancer at Mclaren. One was cut in Juanuary, I beg you Ron get out of Mclaren Jenson Button. Because of him Lewis left (Whitmarsh favouring Button), and the direction that he gives the engineers is more weak than a young driver. Barichello gave better feed back, Lewis did, Perez did, and towards the end of the year even Kevin will gave a better direction. Even if he is the oldest he can't give it. If Mclaren want succes they have to fire this guy.
Lewis left because he could see Merc was a better team slowly building up to its potential. I'm also sick of people scapegoating Whitmarsh. He never once participated in the design teams. That's where the problem is: the design office with their silver bullet design philosophy.
Whitmarsh let Paddy go. He left go Pat Fry + Pedro De la Rosa + a dozen of simulation and wind tunnel engineers to Ferrari. And a lot of other engineers to other teams. Mclaren were constantly bleeding in the last years under Whitmarsh. And who come to Mclaren until Ron turned his atention towards the F1 team ? He hired Sam Michael and Mat Morris and Sergio Perez. Magnussen+the strong recruiting Mclaren is doing since the last half of 2013 is Ron's efforts. He got the money fromt he shareholders and from some chinese partners of the group and he explained to the shareholders in what deep mess Mclaren arrived, after 5 years of Whitmarsh. Remember in March 2013, Ron publicy said to revert to mp4-27 and to highly develop that car because it would give better results than mp4-28, but the continued with mp4-28, trying to save his place, and he took resources from mp4-29 towards the flawless mp4-28 until late in the summer. He just didn't kill Mclaren's 2013 chances but even 2014 chances. Where was Whitmarsh in this years when he should have ruthless follow Mclaren's interests? He persisted wasting energies with the FOTA when Red Bull and Ferrari got out. The decision to persist with mp4-28 and not to revert to mp4-27 and start develop that car (even if it was behind) it was his decision not the designers. And the plan + the money to regenerate Mclaren from where Whitmarsh's management brought us, were a result of Ron's implication the F1 team again. Whitmarsh was leaving in his own world. Remember February 2013, after years in which Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes was poaching Mclaren engineers like in a public market, he said that he "inside the team we firmly believe than we have the best f1 engineers in the F1 business"??. A big F1 team should not take Arsenal's example.

akshat21
akshat21
2
Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 23:23

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:What will Jenson say now? No grip? Massive understeer? Loss of drive?
I will be loyal to Mclaren until I die, but I'm sick by this driver. Together with Whitmarsh he is the cancer at Mclaren. One was cut in Juanuary, I beg you Ron get out of Mclaren Jenson Button. Because of him Lewis left (Whitmarsh favouring Button), and the direction that he gives the engineers is more weak than a young driver. Barichello gave better feed back, Lewis did, Perez did, and towards the end of the year even Kevin will gave a better direction. Even if he is the oldest he can't give it. If Mclaren want succes they have to fire this guy.
I completely agree.. Button has to go. He is a great guy but cant find a setup direction with a compass. I know I am being overly critical but the guy after qualifying well below the new guy.. Sorry. For the experience he has, he should be running rings around Kevin.

I want to put across another scenario for all the people who are saying Button is great but the car is bad, would you expect Hamilton or Alonso to be so soundly beaten and blame his team mate when the car is bad. You can see right now, Kimi is new to the team, and he is having teething problems. He is no slouch but Alonso is running rings around him. At Mercedes, Rosberg has been longer with the team than Hamilton, but even then Hamilton is beating Rosberg day in and day out (Notwithstanding today's quali result).

I have said this before and will reiterate it again. A great driver will get a good lap out of a bad car. Button on the other hand is completely capable of getting a bad lap from a good car.

User avatar
mclaren111
280
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

Agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope this is the start where Kevin starts to dominate JB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

User avatar
FoxHound
55
Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

Pierce89 wrote: Lewis left because he could see Merc was a better team slowly building up to its potential. I'm also sick of people scapegoating Whitmarsh. He never once participated in the design teams. That's where the problem is: the design office with their silver bullet design philosophy.
Oh indeed. The problem lies not with Whitmarsh or Button, but in the way McLaren turns its ideas into reality. There is a chasm between what they think will be a performance boost and the reality.
This is not a drivers fault, one could say not a team principals fault given that Whitmarsh was restricted by budgets and overall authority.

Dennis has jumped back into the pool, and has found there bigger sharks to deal with now. When allied to the loss of Mercedes money, official backing, Hamilton and Lowe, the ship rocked. If there was sentiment that last year was a blip, this year has proven there are deep sested issues inside the design team. And there also appears to be a disconnect between their PR and the design team.

Honda may well be a solution if there problems persist. But Mclaren have some big issues to deal with and Honda will not be forthcoming with answers to all the problems.
JET set

F1 addicted
F1 addicted
0
Joined: 19 May 2014, 16:22

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

He had traffic in both laps. It's not Button's fault, but the team's.

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

FoxHound wrote:
Pierce89 wrote: Lewis left because he could see Merc was a better team slowly building up to its potential. I'm also sick of people scapegoating Whitmarsh. He never once participated in the design teams. That's where the problem is: the design office with their silver bullet design philosophy.
Oh indeed. The problem lies not with Whitmarsh or Button, but in the way McLaren turns its ideas into reality. There is a chasm between what they think will be a performance boost and the reality.
This is not a drivers fault, one could say not a team principals fault given that Whitmarsh was restricted by budgets and overall authority.

Dennis has jumped back into the pool, and has found there bigger sharks to deal with now. When allied to the loss of Mercedes money, official backing, Hamilton and Lowe, the ship rocked. If there was sentiment that last year was a blip, this year has proven there are deep sested issues inside the design team. And there also appears to be a disconnect between their PR and the design team.

Honda may well be a solution if there problems persist. But Mclaren have some big issues to deal with and Honda will not be forthcoming with answers to all the problems.
Yes, but all this is indirectly correlated with Whitmarsh. A too nice guy interest in FOTA and not to ruthless follow Mclaren's interests. Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull all of them thrived in this context of bad management of Mclaren. He should have clearly favoured Hamilton on whatever team mate he had. He should have protected Lewis and not let an averege driver like Button to have so much power in Mclaren. Even is Lewis had ups and downs he would always be a better driver than Button. Whitmarsh prefered Button because it is the same type of person like him. He doesn't have the fire inside to move the mountaints, to create something big by himself like Hamilton, Alonso, Newey. If you have such a diamond in your team whatever it's a driver or an engineer you should give him all you support and make him clearly that the team is his house. I can't understant Whitmarsh's stupidity to tell Mclaren's board that Button it's as good as Hamilton.
It's Whitmarsh's fault that he let those engineers to go and to hire only graduates and young engineers from universities.
It's Whitmarsh's fault that he did not put Button in his place. He should made him clear that he is inferior to Hamilton as talent and even if he would respect and pay him, he will never be equal to Hamilton.
It's Whitmarsh's fault that when it was clear that Red Bull and Ferrari retreated from FOTA and were not respecting the budget restrictions, he didn't make a call to ron saying: "Hi, Ron, Fer and RB are spending more than us, are not respecting RRA, gives us some money and let's went out of FOTA"
It's Whitmarsh fault that he didn't try to steal engineers from other bigs until very late in 2013, and only after Ron started to take care again by the F1 team again (Firing Perez,hiring Magnussen, pomping aggresivly money from the Group to the F1 team).
It's Whitmarsh's fault the bad management in which the employees didn't have a direction and were distracted by too much other objectives, they didn't knew "where the North is". It was necesary that Ron come back openly to start to rebuild all this damage that was caused by the highest position within Mclaren Racing.
Last edited by mclaren_mircea on 24 May 2014, 17:27, edited 1 time in total.

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

F1 addicted wrote:He had traffic in both laps. It's not Button's fault, but the team's.
He always moans. No grip, massive understeer, no heat into the front tyres, loss of drive, bad luck. Don't believe what Button says.
Last edited by mclaren_mircea on 24 May 2014, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.

heidenreich27
heidenreich27
-10
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 11:57

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

Whitmarsch best decision was to sell pat fry , he destroyed ferrari tech appartment, so historical it was a good decision.

Mclaren just need better ideas

F1 addicted
F1 addicted
0
Joined: 19 May 2014, 16:22

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:
F1 addicted wrote:He had traffic in both laps. It's not Button's fault, but the team's.
He always moans. No grip, massive understeer, no heat into the front tyres, loss of drive, bad luck. Don't believe what Button says.
Well, I don't think he would lie about traffic. Button's time in Q2 was slower than Q1. You've less fuel in Q2 and more grip. I think when he didn't have traffic, he would be infront of Kevin. Only Alonso and Hamilton are clearly better than Button. Button is as good as Vettel, Kimi etc.

F1 addicted
F1 addicted
0
Joined: 19 May 2014, 16:22

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

mclaren_mircea wrote:
F1 addicted wrote:He had traffic in both laps. It's not Button's fault, but the team's.
He always moans. No grip, massive understeer, no heat into the front tyres, loss of drive, bad luck. Don't believe what Button says.
Why would he lie about traffic? His time in Q2 was slower than Q1. That happens never. Only Alonso and Hamilton are better than Button. He's as good as Kimi, Vettel etc

User avatar
FoxHound
55
Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

It was Ron Dennis that lauded Mclaren as a team that promotes from within. That is a framework Whitmarsh had to work with.
JET set

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

Post

FoxHound wrote:It was Ron Dennis that lauded Mclaren as a team that promotes from within. That is a framework Whitmarsh had to work with.
Mclaren was a real shark when Ron was in charge at Mclaren. He only lost Newey, but in his time Mclaren was taking what engineer they want from other teams, except from Ferrari. The decline started after Ron retired. Yes, Mclaren promoted from the inside of the team, but this was only an aspect of their policy, because in the same time they were recruiting top quality engineers from other teams. During the Whitmarsh era, promiting from the inside became the core of their vision. During Ron's time Mclaren was very cold, clinic and ruthless. Whitmarsh chanced and destroyed all Mclaren's culture and specifics. Yes Mclaren may have stolen from Ferrari and were arrogant, but they were winners, they walked on cadevers for their target and didn't have for two subsequent years a mp4-28/mp4-29. Whitmarsh weakend and dameged Mclaren because of his vision about Mclaren's role in F1 and how to behave with the FIA and the other teams. This change may have saved them in 2009 after the Lie gate, but in the long term pushed them on the road to mediocrity. And that's where we are now. I have high hopes in Ron's ambition and determination to succed by all the means.