2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[diffuser]

Imola?

Good point, I had forgotten about that single podium out of 22 races.

The only non Red Bull-Ferrari-Mercedes podium, by the way. For a "deeply flawed car", that's quite an achievement. Even Daniel can't eloquently say what his problem was, at the end of the day, it was all about the "feel" of the car. That just sounds like a cop out.

Talk about a lucky weekend. Let's just say that the podium wasn't on the car's merrit, DNF for Sainz and Alonzo... You can probably thank Daniel for taking out Sainz to get that podium.

[mwillems]

Actually, it doesn't, the word "mitigate" means to "to make less severe".

A "work-around" is used to bypass a problem temporarily while a permanent fix is developed (those words have very specific definitions in problem management and engineering in general).

A work around is not assumed to totally fix an issue and the use of language is fine, I wasn't trying to have a dictionary competition.

The point being is that the car made less severe the issue of the tyres, and you follow it with a statement suggesting that the car had a flaw and that the drivers had some work to do too, so perhaps you just wrote it wrong, but the way it is written is the total opposite of what was actually said. The car made the tyres more manageable and Daniel didn't complement that.

Problem management is a key part of the function I manage. We, along with nearly every major industry, use the Kepner Tregoe Method of problem solving. So those words have very specific meanings.

If you were trained in problem management you would also recognise the intentional phrasing Andreas is using.

I think the very specific language that takes precedent is the teams sacking of Daniel followed by comments around why he was sacked. He couldn't get on with the tyres and couldn't get a feeling from them. I don't I need to look at a "problem solving dictionary" as I think that the sacking of Daniel Ricciardo was the team solving the problem.

What you are seeing is a team going out of there way to say that Daniel is a great driver, he just couldn't adapt to the tyre, which is nice, but at the same time a little damning.

[chrisc90]

Good point, I had forgotten about that single podium out of 22 races.

The only non Red Bull-Ferrari-Mercedes podium, by the way. For a "deeply flawed car", that's quite an achievement. Even Daniel can't eloquently say what his problem was, at the end of the day, it was all about the "feel" of the car. That just sounds like a cop out.

Talk about a lucky weekend. Let's just say that the podium wasn't on the car's merrit, DNF for Sainz and Alonzo... You can probably thank Daniel for taking out Sainz to get that podium.

Why can no drivers finish ever be taken on merit? There always seems to be some huge defence from people(not just yourself) as to why a driver doesnt deserve a finishing position, where they finish in the standings or what luck they have with retirements.

Its a strange old thing ive noticed quite a lot on here on team threads.

[PhillipM]

A work around is not assumed to totally fix an issue and the use of language is fine, I wasn't trying to have a dictionary competition.

The point being is that the car made less severe the issue of the tyres, and you follow it with a statement suggesting that the car had a flaw and that the drivers had some work to do too, so perhaps you just wrote it wrong, but the way it is written is the total opposite of what was actually said. The car made the tyres more manageable and Daniel didn't complement that.

Djos often does this where he attacks the wording rather than the arguement and then makes up some stuff about very specific meanings based on where he works and assuming that means the same everywhere - when the reality is it doesn't, and a lot of us here are involved in engineering and very specifically motorsports engineering and I don't think a single one of us would ever bat an eye at what you wrote there, it was completely fine and clear. As usual he reads what he likes and then tries to twist language to fit it instead of addressing the discussion at hand.

Mitigate or work around are pretty much interchangable in this context, and most contexts, and it's obvious from the rest of the quote giving information around the portion he cherry picked that regardless this was a trait with the tyres - a trait even the RB18 and Max struggled to mitigate and drive around in the first half of the year, and a problem the entire grid has had with these tyres - to the extent that Pirelli themselves are changing the front tyres next year to try to fix the issue for *everyone*

...but no, it's definately mclaren trying to hobble their own driver. Because reasons.

[diffuser]

The only non Red Bull-Ferrari-Mercedes podium, by the way. For a "deeply flawed car", that's quite an achievement. Even Daniel can't eloquently say what his problem was, at the end of the day, it was all about the "feel" of the car. That just sounds like a cop out.

Talk about a lucky weekend. Let's just say that the podium wasn't on the car's merrit, DNF for Sainz and Alonzo... You can probably thank Daniel for taking out Sainz to get that podium.

Why can no drivers finish ever be taken on merit? There always seems to be some huge defence from people(not just yourself) as to why a driver doesnt deserve a finishing position, where they finish in the standings or what luck they have with retirements.

Its a strange old thing ive noticed quite a lot on here on team threads.

It's not the drivers but the team. In 2022 if you're not in the top 3, you're 1 second a lap or more off the pace, you need luck. When Alonso put it on the podium for qualifying in Canada he needed the rain to get him there. He used tallent to get there, but if it hadn't rained, he would not have had a podium.

[CjC]

Good point, I had forgotten about that single podium out of 22 races.

The only non Red Bull-Ferrari-Mercedes podium, by the way. For a "deeply flawed car", that's quite an achievement. Even Daniel can't eloquently say what his problem was, at the end of the day, it was all about the "feel" of the car. That just sounds like a cop out.

Talk about a lucky weekend. Let's just say that the podium wasn't on the car's merrit, DNF for Sainz and Alonzo... You can probably thank Daniel for taking out Sainz to get that podium.

Lucky?
Lando qualified P3, sprinted to P5 then finished P3 in the race.

Yes Mclaren were no where near a P3 runner in the season as a whole put that weekend as a package Lando was quick.

And to thank Daniel for the podium by taking out Sainz???? Tell me which other race when a front runner retired- even 2 front runners retired and a midfielder came close to the podium?

[diffuser]

The only non Red Bull-Ferrari-Mercedes podium, by the way. For a "deeply flawed car", that's quite an achievement. Even Daniel can't eloquently say what his problem was, at the end of the day, it was all about the "feel" of the car. That just sounds like a cop out.

Talk about a lucky weekend. Let's just say that the podium wasn't on the car's merrit, DNF for Sainz and Alonzo... You can probably thank Daniel for taking out Sainz to get that podium.

Lucky?
Lando qualified P3, sprinted to P5 then finished P3 in the race.

Yes Mclaren were no where near a P3 runner in the season as a whole put that weekend as a package Lando was quick.

And to thank Daniel for the podium by taking out Sainz???? Tell me which other race when a front runner retired- even 2 front runners retired and a midfielder came close to the podium?

You forget that Lando lost control and red flagged the rest of Q3? Plus in the dry he would not have been there and that's what I mean by luck. Anything out of the ordinary. Under normal dry conditions he wouldn't have been there.

[djos]

A work around is not assumed to totally fix an issue and the use of language is fine, I wasn't trying to have a dictionary competition.

The point being is that the car made less severe the issue of the tyres, and you follow it with a statement suggesting that the car had a flaw and that the drivers had some work to do too, so perhaps you just wrote it wrong, but the way it is written is the total opposite of what was actually said. The car made the tyres more manageable and Daniel didn't complement that.

Djos often does this where he attacks the wording rather than the arguement and then makes up some stuff about very specific meanings based on where he works and assuming that means the same everywhere - when the reality is it doesn't, and a lot of us here are involved in engineering and very specifically motorsports engineering and I don't think a single one of us would ever bat an eye at what you wrote there, it was completely fine and clear. As usual he reads what he likes and then tries to twist language to fit it instead of addressing the discussion at hand.

Mitigate or work around are pretty much interchangable in this context, and most contexts, and it's obvious from the rest of the quote giving information around the portion he cherry picked that regardless this was a trait with the tyres - a trait even the RB18 and Max struggled to mitigate and drive around in the first half of the year, and a problem the entire grid has had with these tyres - to the extent that Pirelli themselves are changing the front tyres next year to try to fix the issue for *everyone*

...but no, it's definately mclaren trying to hobble their own driver. Because reasons.

Words matter in a professional Engineering context, perhaps if you worked in a professional engineering environment, you would not need this explained to you.

[MrGapes]

As I’ve said several times, obviously the guy has solidified his opinions and there is no changing that. It’s best to not entertain the conversation, as this year has proven nothing you say will change his opinion.

Also Happy New Years (eve) everyone!

[Seerix]

Can't wait for 2023 topic and discussions about a) Piastri is doing well, if only RIC was still here b) Piastri is not doing well, look at this proof of McL building bad cars same as RIC had

[CjC]

Can't wait for 2023 topic and discussions about a) Piastri is doing well, if only RIC was still here b) Piastri is not doing well, look at this proof of McL building bad cars same as RIC had

If b) is the case then hopefully the contributors will find their way to the thread of a team who they feel have made a good car for 2023

[Darth-Piekus]

I wish a Happy New 2023 and I hope this new year will bring Mclaren to create a car that is able to me in the mix with the big three and able to gain victories at some point.

[ScottR267]

So it appears from the updated partners page from the website, the team have lost the below partners:

Gulf Oil
Datarobot
Klipsch
Stratatys
Ashurst
Mazak
Hookit
Technogym

No huge loss of money to the team I would suggest and more than likely Zak finds replacements.

P.S. Happy New Year all

[PhillipM]

Words matter in a professional Engineering context, perhaps if you worked in a professional engineering environment, you would not need this explained to you.

I do. For race cars.

As do many others here.
I know at least one person commenting here is actually a development engineer at the very team you're arguing about.

[djos]

Words matter in a professional Engineering context, perhaps if you worked in a professional engineering environment, you would not need this explained to you.

I do. For race cars.

Your comments don’t seem to support this claim.

Edit: in all fairness, most universities don’t teach practical problem solving very well - Kepner Tregoe is typically taught once you are in industry by specialist 3rd party trainers.