Mclaren Mercedes 2014

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Del Boy
Del Boy
8
Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 00:03

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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I think we're stuck with JB at least until Abu Dhabi!! I'm concerned about next year! Magnussen could be team leader and although Lewis handled that in his second season the car was at the end of its development and had input from De La Rosa, Alonso (previous season) and Ron had only just started to concentrate on road car. I hope Mag can handle the pressure!
MP4/30 can be development of MP4/29 albeit with a different power unit. Every interview Jenson does he says they need to find a direction and they have loads of downforce coming (found at MTC). Well if I'd been doing a job for 5 years and still couldn't decide which direction to take I would change career or be told too by my boss i.e fired
I have no evidence and the butterfly suspension hinders direct comparisons but I don't think our Mercedes engine is A spec. If I ran AMG hybrid power I would make sure one of my customers wasn't as quick as my car. We must remember the whole reason Mercedes are in Formula 1 is a marketing exercise.
So I have 2 wishes for 2015 (I've already switched focus!) Honda power unit to be at least as good as Merc PU and McLaren can find a direction before Jenson Mutton leaves.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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you are kidding,no? Button has lost out to Magnussen with a mountain high gap of 3 tenths --and he did how many quicker laps than button did ? 2? yes These two mattered ,but in Monaco it is a matter of luck in there as well .Just shut up with that nonsense when Alonso beats Raikkonen by a margin of 7 tenths and is only one Position ahead on the grid .You cannot account Button -The Driver -for the deficiencies of the car .They have highly paid engineers for Performance development at Mclaren and Tools to fulfill that Task .Mind you Ricciardo is also beating vettel at RB should Seb be sacked as quickly as possible now?
the Problem of Mclaren is not Drivers nor is it Setup -the car again is a dog and Mclaren receives 3rd choice of engine from DAI......Is this 5 10 or 100 hp ? static or dynamic? there is so much you could do or leave as supplier .would you as AMG make a big effort to ensure Mclaren soon leaving for Honda will receive only bob material?

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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marcush. wrote:you are kidding,no? Button has lost out to Magnussen with a mountain high gap of 3 tenths --and he did how many quicker laps than button did ? 2? yes These two mattered ,but in Monaco it is a matter of luck in there as well .Just shut up with that nonsense when Alonso beats Raikkonen by a margin of 7 tenths and is only one Position ahead on the grid .You cannot account Button -The Driver -for the deficiencies of the car .They have highly paid engineers for Performance development at Mclaren and Tools to fulfill that Task .Mind you Ricciardo is also beating vettel at RB should Seb be sacked as quickly as possible now?
the Problem of Mclaren is not Drivers nor is it Setup -the car again is a dog and Mclaren receives 3rd choice of engine from DAI......Is this 5 10 or 100 hp ? static or dynamic? there is so much you could do or leave as supplier .would you as AMG make a big effort to ensure Mclaren soon leaving for Honda will receive only bob material?
There seems to be a consistent railing against JB, despite the fact he is a world champion, despite the fact the he is outpointing Mag at this moment, and despite the fact that he stood up well to Lewis when they were in the same car - a feat nobody thought he capable of. Never seems to be enough for some people.

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Del Boy wrote:I think we're stuck with JB at least until Abu Dhabi!! I'm concerned about next year! Magnussen could be team leader and although Lewis handled that in his second season the car was at the end of its development and had input from De La Rosa, Alonso (previous season) and Ron had only just started to concentrate on road car. I hope Mag can handle the pressure!
MP4/30 can be development of MP4/29 albeit with a different power unit. Every interview Jenson does he says they need to find a direction and they have loads of downforce coming (found at MTC). Well if I'd been doing a job for 5 years and still couldn't decide which direction to take I would change career or be told too by my boss i.e fired
I have no evidence and the butterfly suspension hinders direct comparisons but I don't think our Mercedes engine is A spec. If I ran AMG hybrid power I would make sure one of my customers wasn't as quick as my car. We must remember the whole reason Mercedes are in Formula 1 is a marketing exercise.
So I have 2 wishes for 2015 (I've already switched focus!) Honda power unit to be at least as good as Merc PU and McLaren can find a direction before Jenson Mutton leaves.
Next year the Honda engine can't be better than the three engine on the grid today, whatever if we like to get drunk with cold water of what Honda can do this year because they are not running. The fact is that for the development of the next year engines Mercedes has 3-4 teams to provide real track information about the engine, and even they can't develop the engine on the performance front this year, for the next year engines they can. And Mercedes started to work on the V6 engine much much earlier than Honda. You could say that the engine will be good if their engine would have been at the same level of development as Mercedes, but it can't be the case, because they started to work on it much later than Mercedes. And Honda said that they will not test the engine, they will only use the dynos.
Honda will be in the blind, because the information they will get from Mclaren, will come to late and it won't be enough to alter the design of the Honda V6 engine. Honda can only look and can speculate about the engines this years, while Mercedes will have thousands of track conditions. I think Honda will struggle their first year, and sadly they will be not only behind Mercedes, but even behin Ferrari and Renault.
They will struggle, Arai even recognised that in a December interview, because one year behind in track conditions will cost very much. He said that they can't or they won't do real testing, not sure why. The engine is not in the same phase of development as Mercedes engine, next year, their engine will be at the same level of development as Mercedes was at the begining of 2014. Mercedes will learn very much information that will be feed in the development of their next year engine, when they can work on performance. I think Mclaren will struggle even more than this year, whith an engine one year behind in development and with realiability concerns because of the engine. Also Honda doesn't have client team apart of Mclaren to gather more data.

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FoxHound
55
Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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That they get mercedes power is of benefit to them.
Regardless if the unit is the runt of the litter produced, it'll still be better than the alternatives.
JET set

Del Boy
Del Boy
8
Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 00:03

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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mclaren_mircea wrote:
Del Boy wrote:I think we're stuck with JB at least until Abu Dhabi!! I'm concerned about next year! Magnussen could be team leader and although Lewis handled that in his second season the car was at the end of its development and had input from De La Rosa, Alonso (previous season) and Ron had only just started to concentrate on road car. I hope Mag can handle the pressure!
MP4/30 can be development of MP4/29 albeit with a different power unit. Every interview Jenson does he says they need to find a direction and they have loads of downforce coming (found at MTC). Well if I'd been doing a job for 5 years and still couldn't decide which direction to take I would change career or be told too by my boss i.e fired
I have no evidence and the butterfly suspension hinders direct comparisons but I don't think our Mercedes engine is A spec. If I ran AMG hybrid power I would make sure one of my customers wasn't as quick as my car. We must remember the whole reason Mercedes are in Formula 1 is a marketing exercise.
So I have 2 wishes for 2015 (I've already switched focus!) Honda power unit to be at least as good as Merc PU and McLaren can find a direction before Jenson Mutton leaves.
Next year the Honda engine can't be better than the three engine on the grid today, whatever if we like to get drunk with cold water of what Honda can do this year because they are not running. The fact is that for the development of the next year engines Mercedes has 3-4 teams to provide real track information about the engine, and even they can't develop the engine on the performance front this year, for the next year engines they can. And Mercedes started to work on the V6 engine much much earlier than Honda. You could say that the engine will be good if their engine would have been at the same level of development as Mercedes, but it can't be the case, because they started to work on it much later than Mercedes. And Honda said that they will not test the engine, they will only use the dynos.
Honda will be in the blind, because the information they will get from Mclaren, will come to late and it won't be enough to alter the design of the Honda V6 engine. Honda can only look and can speculate about the engines this years, while Mercedes will have thousands of track conditions. I think Honda will struggle their first year, and sadly they will be not only behind Mercedes, but even behin Ferrari and Renault.
They will struggle, Arai even recognised that in a December interview, because one year behind in track conditions will cost very much. He said that they can't or they won't do real testing, not sure why. The engine is not in the same phase of development as Mercedes engine, next year, their engine will be at the same level of development as Mercedes was at the begining of 2014. Mercedes will learn very much information that will be feed in the development of their next year engine, when they can work on performance. I think Mclaren will struggle even more than this year, whith an engine one year behind in development and with realiability concerns because of the engine. Also Honda doesn't have client team apart of Mclaren to gather more data.
I don't disagree with you however I don't agree with you. A little history lesson. The Japanese nation became a world power by copying and subsequentially miniaturising technology, they are very good at it. Japan is a technology power house that has invented very little, but copied and improved very well.
The lack of running / testing of the power unit will be a concern, however Honda lead the way with turbo technology during the 80's even after Renault had done most of the ground breaking design Honda copied it and the MP4/4 was born. At the end of the previous turbo era Honda produced the best engine by a long way. Therefore my logic is they can copy and improve with excellence and McLaren is going to provide something for them to copy and improve!

nacho
nacho
6
Joined: 04 Sep 2009, 08:38

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Japan is a technology power house that has invented very little, but copied and improved very well.
That's a big understatement.

Phillyred
Phillyred
3
Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 18:46

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Even if Honda provides an engine that equals or betters the Mercedes I firmly believe that the issue lies some where deeper in the R&D and the fundamental process of how the car is designed. We have seen "how the mighty have fallen" in McLaren. Can one man make a difference (Ron Dennis)? I think McLaren has at least a couple more years of struggling in order to have RD's chess pieces in place and fully integrated and to understand the Honda PU.

johnsonwax
johnsonwax
0
Joined: 21 Apr 2014, 21:46

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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That's oversimplifying things. Economies go through fairly predictable patterns, all of which involve copying as lower-developed economies rise to compete with higher-developed. Toward the end, when they've mastered copying high-tech component designs and begin to produce unique designs, they tend to narrow into specific industries where they feel they can dominate. Japan has long had good enough engineering education to produce innovative design, and they do in specific industries - mostly around electronics, robotics and industrial engineering, but also around infrastructure/civil engineering. If you want high-precision robotic assembly equipment, you're going to buy from Japan or Germany. Japan is losing it's edge, but it's been a leader there for some time.

No nation dominates in all technology areas. All nations copy/improve in areas where they aren't dominant.

South Korea is where Japan was 20 years ago. They're just starting to do innovative electronics work. Mostly they've just been iterating designs.

China is a bit of an outlier because of their size and government intervention, they're kind of all over the map, but they're trying to break into doing innovative engineering. Their problem is they don't have an educational system to support that yet. It's not just the quality of education, but the nature of it. Innovation requires non-conformity of thought. Not the kind of thing that China has encouraged the last few decades.

monsi
monsi
10
Joined: 30 Mar 2013, 18:07

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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I really do not like the demonising of Button in this thread. I don't believe it is sensible to scapecoat a driver for the underperformance of a car, or to read moaning into his statements, most of which are simply stating how things are. All the drivers at this level are very good, a small handful are out of this world, and the difference between one and the other is of the order of a couple of places in finishing order in any race. That is not enough to explain the performance deficit observed.

What I find most curious about this year is those suspension arms. They are cleary designed to trade drag for downforce, so one might expect that of all years this would not be the one where there is a relative downforce deficit. However that appears to be where the team is right now. The car appears to be stable, unlike last year's car for much of the year, hence one would assume it is capable of steady development just not optimised as much as they would like. Presumably the areas where it is not as optimal as it could be are those with long development lead time from the season start. If so then they should be popping out next couple of races. I guess we will see...

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mclaren111
280
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Read an article in F1 Times this morning that Caterham is for sale !!!!! :D

As I have posted before, this is the ideal opportunity for McLaren & Honda to get their own B Team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [-o< [-o<

McMrocks
McMrocks
32
Joined: 14 Apr 2012, 17:58

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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mclaren111 wrote:Read an article in F1 Times this morning that Caterham is for sale !!!!! :D

As I have posted before, this is the ideal opportunity for McLaren & Honda to get their own B Team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [-o< [-o<
they have other problems than that. And it is too expensive.

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mclaren111
280
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Fernandes is not putting money into it. Soon it will become cheap enough. Can sell off Caterham Cars etc.

Must form part of their long term plans !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thunder
Moderator
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 09:50
Location: Germany

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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Promising Words from Eric Boullier, a Major Upgrade Package is underway for the Austrian GP. Let's not loose faith. :D

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114162
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

CjC
CjC
12
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: Mclaren-Mercedes F1 Team 2014

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dahh you beat me too it!

Sounds good, wonder what the upgrade could be? a new switch on the steering wheel? lol
Just a fan's point of view