2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

People just need to have a blame box when things don't go their way, and they act out and throw their toys. Zak has lifted this team and was the first piece in getting the house in order. Under his watch we have certainly had ups and downs, but the trend is very much up. As he says, perhaps he should have been more ruthless before. He won't make that mistake again I think.

I think people forget just how big of a task it is to turn around a team that was struggling for a longtime into a team that's on the cusp of being able to challenge for race wins and maybe titles.

Posted this in the MCL60 thread, it's an interesting read on how McLaren developed the car over the course of the season. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... /10525546/

Thanks for posting, it is an interesting read. I noticed this quote around the front wing changes in the season:

""Even if this generation of cars inherently reduced the outwashing massively compared to the previous generation of cars, teams are all trying to pursue this objective," he said. "Every little bit you cash in gives you better characteristics, especially in the medium/low-speed corners.""

Very much talking about how the slower outwash can really affect the aero, I would guess because there is less force pushing the dirty air away from the sensitive parts.

And

"With Red Bull's rivals having cottoned on to the fact that the RB19's DRS is so effective because of the drag balance between the rear wing mainplane and beam wing, McLaren has been pursuing that path too. " Which was my assertion for some time that it was critical to have these working together as a package.

There's a really interesting read on the floor wing too, which I can't fully get my head around. Has it replaced the skates?

Do the underfloor skate and edge wing serve the same function or different? I was discussing this point with you earlier, and now after Stella said they went back to the edge wing and got rid of the skate, as I understand it, confuses me.

In my head, I always assumed that anything near the bottom edge was done for insulation to keep the venturi ducts working efficiently, and the skate is needed to either optimize underfloor flows, plus limit the edge of the underbody touching the road surface, reduce the effects of turbulence from the rear tires and increase diffuser efficiency. It would be good to see a closeup of the rear end on the underbody, looking for skates, whether it's there or not.

[daren_p]

I'm not sure & maybe I'm imagining things but I believe it was posted somewhere that due to the regulations you could have one or the other but not both at the same time?

[LionsHeart]

I'm not sure & maybe I'm imagining things but I believe it was posted somewhere that due to the regulations you could have one or the other but not both at the same time?

It could be. But I've never heard of such a rule. So you're probably right.

[daren_p]

I believe its to do with the restrictions in the new regulations on slot gaps, in the floor edge (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). The skate was designed so that it would meet the requirements of this but in doing so you would have to remove other slot gaps in the floor edge.

I don't recall if it was at the start of the season or during the season, RB added the floor wing (& believe removed the skate at the time), while MCL did the opposite & appears have once again gone back.

[mwillems]

I think people forget just how big of a task it is to turn around a team that was struggling for a longtime into a team that's on the cusp of being able to challenge for race wins and maybe titles.

Posted this in the MCL60 thread, it's an interesting read on how McLaren developed the car over the course of the season. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... /10525546/

Thanks for posting, it is an interesting read. I noticed this quote around the front wing changes in the season:

""Even if this generation of cars inherently reduced the outwashing massively compared to the previous generation of cars, teams are all trying to pursue this objective," he said. "Every little bit you cash in gives you better characteristics, especially in the medium/low-speed corners.""

Very much talking about how the slower outwash can really affect the aero, I would guess because there is less force pushing the dirty air away from the sensitive parts.

And

"With Red Bull's rivals having cottoned on to the fact that the RB19's DRS is so effective because of the drag balance between the rear wing mainplane and beam wing, McLaren has been pursuing that path too. " Which was my assertion for some time that it was critical to have these working together as a package.

There's a really interesting read on the floor wing too, which I can't fully get my head around. Has it replaced the skates?

Do the underfloor skate and edge wing serve the same function or different? I was discussing this point with you earlier, and now after Stella said they went back to the edge wing and got rid of the skate, as I understand it, confuses me.

In my head, I always assumed that anything near the bottom edge was done for insulation to keep the venturi ducts working efficiently, and the skate is needed to either optimize underfloor flows, plus limit the edge of the underbody touching the road surface, reduce the effects of turbulence from the rear tires and increase diffuser efficiency. It would be good to see a closeup of the rear end on the underbody, looking for skates, whether it's there or not.

Having read it again I think I understand it. The skate has repercussions based on ride height. This wasn't a problem when cars had porpoising issues, but through geometry this has been fixed enough that the skate isn't necessary and the floor wing design can replace the skate.

Now I'm into guessing territory. I suspect the skate helped seal the floor as a physical "side" and this effect was quite strong, but what is stronger is being able to get the floor lower to the ground and still keep the floor sealed in other situations, which the floor wing helps with. Because now I think about it I have seen many pictures of cars on the gris running extremely close to the ground, which for some reason didn't register with me, but wouldn't be possible with skates.

In fact, now it is making a little sense in my head, either through coincidence or not. If we can get the floor very low to the ground that would reduce airflow and drag, can the floor be partially stalled? We were noticeably faster in a straight line from Singapore onwards. Is this skate and ride height related?

Edit: I thought one reason for the skates was to prevent the car from bottoming out.

[mwillems]

I believe its to do with the restrictions in the new regulations on slot gaps, in the floor edge (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). The skate was designed so that it would meet the requirements of this but in doing so you would have to remove other slot gaps in the floor edge.

I don't recall if it was at the start of the season or during the season, RB added the floor wing (& believe removed the skate at the time), while MCL did the opposite & appears have once again gone back.

It could well be true, but the way I read it is that the Skate was hindering Ride Height which can now be lower due to better floor designs and because the skate is a solution to seal the floor. So either you only need one or the other, or it is mandated, or both.

[LionsHeart]

Thanks for posting, it is an interesting read. I noticed this quote around the front wing changes in the season:

""Even if this generation of cars inherently reduced the outwashing massively compared to the previous generation of cars, teams are all trying to pursue this objective," he said. "Every little bit you cash in gives you better characteristics, especially in the medium/low-speed corners.""

Very much talking about how the slower outwash can really affect the aero, I would guess because there is less force pushing the dirty air away from the sensitive parts.

And

"With Red Bull's rivals having cottoned on to the fact that the RB19's DRS is so effective because of the drag balance between the rear wing mainplane and beam wing, McLaren has been pursuing that path too. " Which was my assertion for some time that it was critical to have these working together as a package.

There's a really interesting read on the floor wing too, which I can't fully get my head around. Has it replaced the skates?

Do the underfloor skate and edge wing serve the same function or different? I was discussing this point with you earlier, and now after Stella said they went back to the edge wing and got rid of the skate, as I understand it, confuses me.

In my head, I always assumed that anything near the bottom edge was done for insulation to keep the venturi ducts working efficiently, and the skate is needed to either optimize underfloor flows, plus limit the edge of the underbody touching the road surface, reduce the effects of turbulence from the rear tires and increase diffuser efficiency. It would be good to see a closeup of the rear end on the underbody, looking for skates, whether it's there or not.

Having read it again I think I understand it. The skate has repercussions based on ride height. This wasn't a problem when cars had porpoising issues, but through geometry this has been fixed enough that the skate isn't necessary and the floor wing design can replace the skate.

Now I'm into guessing territory. I suspect the skate helped seal the floor as a physical "side" and this effect was quite strong, but what is stronger is being able to get the floor lower to the ground and still keep the floor sealed in other situations, which the floor wing helps with. Because now I think about it I have seen many pictures of cars on the gris running extremely close to the ground, which for some reason didn't register with me, but wouldn't be possible with skates.

In fact, now it is making a little sense in my head, either through coincidence or not. If we can get the floor very low to the ground that would reduce airflow and drag, can the floor be partially stalled? We were noticeably faster in a straight line from Singapore onwards. Is this skate and ride height related?

Edit: I thought one reason for the skates was to prevent the car from bottoming out.

That's a very interesting opinion on your part. I remember well how in Hungary the McLaren chassis was hitting the road hard with the bottom of the chassis. I haven't seen the Suzuka onboard yet. I might have time tomorrow. But I've seen the onboard of Alonso and Russell. The Merc has some hard hits, but the Aston is doing well. In that case, let's see if McLaren have eliminated that side effect.

To be honest I've never once heard that there is such a remark in the rules about skates and edge wings. In some ways it is even interesting, that the teams have a place to go and that the technical regulations leave a field for interesting decisions.

I forgot to add. If the team was able to solve the sway problem and lower the car, reducing ground clearance can add downforce, and on the straights can slightly reduce drag. On the back straight between Spoon and 130R Oscar was very fast. So anything can happen. If that's the case, Lando should definitely get a contract extension.

[LionsHeart]

I believe its to do with the restrictions in the new regulations on slot gaps, in the floor edge (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). The skate was designed so that it would meet the requirements of this but in doing so you would have to remove other slot gaps in the floor edge.

I don't recall if it was at the start of the season or during the season, RB added the floor wing (& believe removed the skate at the time), while MCL did the opposite & appears have once again gone back.

Yeah, it's pretty curious. The team is experimenting, testing up and down.

[AR3-GP]

I believe its to do with the restrictions in the new regulations on slot gaps, in the floor edge (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). The skate was designed so that it would meet the requirements of this but in doing so you would have to remove other slot gaps in the floor edge.

I don't recall if it was at the start of the season or during the season, RB added the floor wing (& believe removed the skate at the time), while MCL did the opposite & appears have once again gone back.

Well, the underbody looks very similar to the RB underbody so it makes sense, them going back...I do question how much of this resurgeance would have been possible without one Sergio Perez.

[mwillems]

I believe its to do with the restrictions in the new regulations on slot gaps, in the floor edge (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). The skate was designed so that it would meet the requirements of this but in doing so you would have to remove other slot gaps in the floor edge.

I don't recall if it was at the start of the season or during the season, RB added the floor wing (& believe removed the skate at the time), while MCL did the opposite & appears have once again gone back.

Well, the underbody looks very similar to the RB underbody so it makes sense, them going back...I do question how much of this resurgeance would have been possible without one Sergio Perez.

Ahahaha Well the teams all conservatively said they couldn't learn from the floor as the geometry was unique to each cars design and you can't replicate it... but you do have the feeling we may have got something out of it after all...

[taperoo2k]

I believe its to do with the restrictions in the new regulations on slot gaps, in the floor edge (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). The skate was designed so that it would meet the requirements of this but in doing so you would have to remove other slot gaps in the floor edge.

I don't recall if it was at the start of the season or during the season, RB added the floor wing (& believe removed the skate at the time), while MCL did the opposite & appears have once again gone back.

Well, the underbody looks very similar to the RB underbody so it makes sense, them going back...I do question how much of this resurgeance would have been possible without one Sergio Perez.

Ahahaha Well the teams all conservatively said they couldn't learn from the floor as the geometry was unique to each cars design and you can't replicate it... but you do have the feeling we may have got something out of it after all...

Seeing the RB19 floor was likely very useful in helping McLaren to understand Red Bull's design philosophy on the RB19 alongside all the other parts of the RB19 (you have to look at the car as a whole rather than in isolation). Probably helps that Peter Prodromou used to be Newey's number 2 at Red Bull if I'm remembering correctly.

[mwillems]

He did indeed. He may well understand neweys designs more than others.

[LionsHeart]

Well, the underbody looks very similar to the RB underbody so it makes sense, them going back...I do question how much of this resurgeance would have been possible without one Sergio Perez.

Ahahaha Well the teams all conservatively said they couldn't learn from the floor as the geometry was unique to each cars design and you can't replicate it... but you do have the feeling we may have got something out of it after all...

Seeing the RB19 floor was likely very useful in helping McLaren to understand Red Bull's design philosophy on the RB19 alongside all the other parts of the RB19 (you have to look at the car as a whole rather than in isolation). Probably helps that Peter Prodromou used to be Newey's number 2 at Red Bull if I'm remembering correctly.

Yeah, “Right hand” or “Right arm” As we used to say.

True, being able to correctly interpret the whole philosophy and simply copying is not the same thing.

Good thing Prodromou is staying on the team. I haven't heard from him in a while, no news about him. I only remember seeing him at a pre-season test at some point in the year, maybe 2016 or 2017, but definitely haven't seen or heard of him since.

[Tomsky]

[Farnborough]

AN makes the point that if you get the architecture right then you can, during the use period change the bodywork to better chase an aero concept.

To me, that's effectively what happened here at McL with overall concept, it is a good chassis concept, and seemed so right from the start ( notable lack of porpoising) as it's not changed fundamentally. Aero strategy was not from the same starting point in reality, now clearly on stream in competitive direction.

They also need to "hold" this for next year at least, not loosing sight of their current base level by introduction of underlying elements that can detract from this. It usually gets harder to bring comprehensive gains from here on in, that's in regard to closing out the gap to lead car design that's also maturely going through its own refinement process.

Hard / delicate, both type decisions have to be progressed in chasing down that target.

The other teams also are going to play a part in this too, with both MB & Ferrari committed in moving toward this concept type for their own chase.

I think it's going to be a very interesting year next season.