Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

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lebesset
lebesset
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Re: Mercedes GP

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who is this most experienced development driver ?
RB is on record as saying MS is poor at this , he just knows what he likes and tells them if he doesn't get it ; apparently when eddie irvine was at ferrari he used to set the car up for MS ...only problem for him was that MS could always drive it quicker than he could #-o
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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strad
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Re: Mercedes GP

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Well according to an article in Racer...Mark Gallagher of Cosworth says..
Rubens Barrichello is regarded as one of the best development drivers in the business, none other than Ross Brawn has spoken of the Brazilian's strength in understanding engine-mapping and performance, an area where he was far superior even to Michael Schumacher. By the end of the season, Barrichello will have started more than 300 grands prix and has essential comparative engine data in his head - and a willingness to push Williams and Cosworth to the limit. "He doesn't hold back with any criticism and he provides extremely useful feedback." says Gallagher. "That has been of use to us in optimizing the engine. He drove the Honda in 2008, the Mercedes in '09 and he briefly drove the Williams Toyota in Qatar. When we met him in December, he was able to sit down and talk us through the difference between the engines that he had experienced over the past year. That was really interesting because we have no aspirations to match the Toyota or the Honda, because they weren't6 good enough. Our aspirations are to match the Mercedes! What he said about its power, drive ability and characteristics was extremely helpful. "To hear a driver describe how an engine can affect his driving style - the way he takes the car through the corner, the way he changes down the gears, the way he brakes and used the engine - as well as how the engine alters the nuances of car handling is very useful. There's no question that Rubes stands out in terms of the caliber of the feedback that he has provided.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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strad
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Re: Mercedes GP

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edit....double post
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP

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Aha, so this is why we might see Rubens in his indian-summer with Mercedes next year, if the team will last that long,
setting up the car for the old geezer himself? :idea:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes GP

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complacent ..thats the word that springs to my mind.
How can something like this go past in front of your eyes and you do not even realise theres something going on....
the RB5 rope suspended wing in winter testing was a clear indication RedBull was
on something ..... #-o #-o #-o
it really was they did not realise how they slipped back with everyone making progress ...

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP

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Perhaps un-isotrop carbon-fiber technology is an xample of an area where the machinist is separated from the engineer? :wink:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP

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Thing is,
Can Mercedes implement a "flexi wing" of sorts that complies with the more stringent regs? I dont see Mercedes investing time and effort into it unless it can be done fairly easily.
OT, How much will the regs hamper Red Bull by?
More could have been done.
David Purley

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes GP

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xpensive wrote:Perhaps un-isotrop carbon-fiber technology is an xample of an area where the machinist is separated from the engineer? :wink:

Un-ISO WHAT ??? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: is there a tolerance on it ...in thou please....you got a conversion table for that?..

is this for real....it could be....
but then who did their carbonfibre gearbox ..Savage and his team are clearly clever enough to grasp that concept,no question.But at times it lookes as if they are acting a bit uninspired and short sighted and communicate this to the world...

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP

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As long as the regs only requires a static vertical load at a certain point of the wing, the door is wide open for a creative engineer with know-how in un-isotropic carbonfibre orientation. This was pointed out by some members of this forum a long time ago on another thread, but when an old Brabham spanner-man is the FIA's tech rep, this --- is what you get.

I believe a gearbox is an item where having different properties in different directions is of little need. Understanding and calculating the un-isotropic behaviour with invariants, is a different ball-game, we did this by hand at Uni.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invariant_(mathematics)

I think Ross Brawn's halo has become a tad unstable, if not come off completely, over the 2010 season.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Mercedes GP

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The fact that RB's composites head honcho turned up at Spa just-in-case should have been a clue as to what was going on. The floor thing from Mercedes and McLaren was just a red herring I think even though I thought they might be doing something there at one point, perhaps trying to cover some bases.

However, if RB's composites and aerodynamics people know their stuff in where the forces are being applied, which they will, they will know that it is where the force is applied that is important. If the FIA are merely stuffing a 100 kg weight or whatever the silly thing is now on top of the wing and expecting it to bend downwards then they're going to be disappointed. Non-linear flexing materials and clever aerodynamic front wing design will ensure that the wing only ever flexes in combination with the magnitude and direction of those forces. Red Bull will no doubt start taking this further for next season to make Brabham's spanner man look even more silly........... Herbie goes bananas?

Can they test that though? The only way to see the effect of this would be in a wind tunnel test rig or something, and they'd then have to accurately measure how much it has moved - with a correct tolerance - which they've bizarrely proved they don't grok. I think that would be impossible, not to mention costly. I can't see any way this can be caught currently, certainly with those in charge.

Methinks Mercedes and Ross Brawn, as well as McLaren and Whitmarsh and Herbie, are going to look a bit silly after this weekend.........

segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Mercedes GP

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xpensive wrote:Perhaps un-isotrop carbon-fiber technology is an xample of an area where the machinist is separated from the engineer? :wink:
Probably. I think this is probably one of those things that has dropped out as a result of Newey's top-down prodding. He prods his team and says "I want a wing that does this" and then someone down the line finds out as a result of the pressure.

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes GP

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It is not as if these things are NEW to the world and obviously most of the teams have not even looked into the possibilities of the material they are working for such a long time now...unbelievable.No lateral thinking at all not even a quick wiki search...

Back to square one:
Starting your 2011 car how do you start ? What is a clean sheet of paper ? You have your regs but you also have certain aims going with your new contender.
So two Prime requirements are somewhat contradicting :DRAG and Downforce .It really starts with the first question you are asking yourself that will hint you where you need to put your efforts :Downforce when you need it and minimised drag on the straights.
No wonder McLaren came up with their f-duct thing ...this is a the result of a structured analysis of their design goals.
Same with Neweys Bendy wings .I got a constraint ..how can I get around it without failing the test..and to the letter of the rulebook stay legal....

hiring a carbonfibre honcho to produce bendy wings ...how many years do you have time to catch RedBull with their wing design...Newey is already on the next set of ideas ....and will astonish the competitors with his RBR7.
Last edited by marcush. on 23 Sep 2010, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP

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xpensive wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:I see potential, and maybe next year these "xciting developments" Brawn speaks of will actually be xciting!!!!! :lol:
With the current regulations, the "xciting" part will probably be an even more outrageous front wing, which folds like
a road-map on the straights but curls up as an air-brake through the bends, while it stays solid as a rock in the pits.

The latter will be cherfully demonstrated by Norbert Haug, with posing for the photographers sitting on it.
Remember where you read this marcush, just swap "Brawn" for "Newey"! :D
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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Byronrhys
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Joined: 09 Aug 2010, 03:14

Re: Mercedes GP

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Lol is Nico emulating Micheal now? tsk
Image
Image

wonder if it was a gift from the old guy lol, j/k

andrew
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Re: Mercedes GP

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It seems that the "truth" behind Brawn GPs income has been revealed.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=42149

Also I have read that Mercedes have given up all hope of a good Constructors Championship finish this year and are looking to next year (which has to be better).

And Eddie Jordan would sack Schumacher (if it were his team).

That's all of todays Mercedes news. :mrgreen: