Red Bull RB6

[segedunum]

It was nice to see the ideas doing the rounds and to take part in some of the discussions around them on such a ride-levelling device, but we've come so far and there is still nothing obvious at all. From more shots that we've seen of that Red Bull in parc ferme and out on track we just can't see any differences. The problem is people are looking for differences which is skewing things.

I'm of the opinion now that Red Bull just has a nicely tuned suspension and bump stop system pushed along by Newey because he knows it will improve the aerodynamics. Nick Hiedfeld commented quite specifically on how the Red Bull seemed to be riding bumps and kerbs far better than last season in winter testing.

If that's the case, and there is no smoking gun and no quick performance solution, then the next few races look bleak for other teams. They won't have any clue where to start really. I think McLaren were just desperately hoping that they could get a quick performance gain with a ride height change and that has now backfired.

[autogyro]

For me it proves the narrow focus on aero by many engineers and even teams.
Adrian Newey is for sure the most 'rounded' designer out there.
It certainly does not bode well if regulations start limiting DF.

[marcush.]

I am, and always have been of the thinking that this ride height thing is pure red herring conversation. It is truly laughable how everyone latched onto this idea without anything to go on. It's kind of sad to see it coming to an end really. It's been entertaining to see all these "experts" pontificating on this, that, etc.

Anyone who has ever spent time tuning ride heights and alignment on layout rack knows just how stupid all these assumptions based on a pic of a car parked on un-level ground are. Just a little dip(as little as 10 mm even) where the left rear tire was is enough to give you the pic you see. Put it on a level plane and then we can make some assumptions but just sitting on non level ground? Really ..

And in addition, F1 is, and has been for as long as I can remember, home of the rising rate suspension .. like since the early eighties. What's 300 lbs of fuel compared to 2,000 lbs of downforce, in terms of affecting ride height? It's nothing.

And does anyone here know anything about bump stops???? My God, come on. More time/effort is spent on bump stop tuning than I guess anyone here is aware. Bump stops *are* the rising rate suspension these days, and there is your answer. Now let's let it die and move on.

Maybe we can speculate on something real, such as the F duct and how these other teams will implement it. At least that would be based in something real.

right and wrong

how much will it cost to lower the CG height of the RB6 an estimated 5 millimters?
I´m pretty sure not only Adrian Newey would kill for a lowered CG height of 5mm...

the theme bump stop is of course a hot one ,no question ,for thos e who just think of pur elastomers restricting bump travel and preventing bottoming out of the car..read this:
http://update.smac.fr/files/pdf/smacbum ... 1ec3bbcc3a

funny enough ,the bump rubbers with a lot of damping build in (hysteresis) are temperature sensitive.. so altering their springrate by temps and considerably so..

so all you have to provide to let the car sag for qualy..is provided by a heat gun placed correctly ..

[Intego]

funny enough ,the bump rubbers with a lot of damping build in (hysteresis) are temperature sensitive.. so altering their springrate by temps and considerably so..

so all you have to provide to let the car sag for qualy..is provided by a heat gun placed correctly ..

That's exactly what I just thought. Look where the exhaust and the end of the pullrod are placed ...

[BreezyRacer]

how much will it cost to lower the CG height of the RB6 an estimated 5 millimters?
I´m pretty sure not only Adrian Newey would kill for a lowered CG height of 5mm...

the theme bump stop is of course a hot one ,no question ,for thos e who just think of pur elastomers restricting bump travel and preventing bottoming out of the car..read this:
http://update.smac.fr/files/pdf/smacbum ... 1ec3bbcc3a

funny enough ,the bump rubbers with a lot of damping build in (hysteresis) are temperature sensitive.. so altering their springrate by temps and considerably so..

so all you have to provide to let the car sag for qualy..is provided by a heat gun placed correctly ..

First there is NOTHING to say they have to be using any normal production parts, and second, there is nothing to say that a bump stop has to be located on shock rods or that there is only 1 per corner. Once you've played around/tuned bump stops (it's practically the whole suspension on my race car) you realize just how important they are. You would not believe, on the face of it, that you could get compliant suspension from just over an inch of travel, but I can, and do.

Of course dampening, especially low speed bump, also is a godsend as well. My point is, that ride heights have been carefully controlled forever in F1 and that 300lbs of load is nothing to worry about .. just tune for it. The better techniques/teams rise to the top. That's where RB is.

[manchild]

Almost identical angle, Liz's dirty sister with unseen floor loophole exploitation.



The floor is wider than the sidepods, so that allowed them to make cut and it and make a flip-up.

[Blackout]

That's an old trick and this is an STR. RBR and STR have that flip un since last year... and also the F10...

[PNSD]

Many of the current cars feature a similar peice of bodywork. It just sheds a vortex I persume.

[marcush.]

the holy grail of bump rubbers....
It was something that amazed me always just how little most of the guys actually know about or even cared about this and on the other hand how much you could achieve
with them even on a touring car.
so if you cannot afford the ttx40 dampers ...invest in bumprubbers.. its more than a halfway house...

[BreezyRacer]

Almost identical angle, Liz's dirty sister with unseen floor loophole exploitation.



The floor is wider than the sidepods, so that allowed them to make cut and it and make a flip-up.

Newey pioneered this a year ago BUT at Sepang it was the first time in ages that RB DIDN'T use it. The floor sides were flat there for the first time in a year. Kind of funny, huh?

The idea is to provide an exit for a vortex at the front of the sidepod that forces air out the side of the sidepods, to create more low pressure earlier in the chassis, thereby moving the pressure center forward in the car.

[segedunum]

It certainly does not bode well if regulations start limiting DF.

The amusing thing about restricting aero is that aerodynamics then becomes more of a precious commodity. Those who can make it work and generate any increase in downforce are kings. That's why I predict even more of a bright future for Red Bull next year when double diffusers are outlawed.

I can't understand these comments from people like Eddie Jordan regarding a fity percent or something reduction in downforce....... How can you possibly work that? The goalposts just move.

[autogyro]

Not if you regulate a set level of DF and find an efficient method to measure and enforce it.

[manchild]

http://www.f1technical.net/news/14602?s ... 34895a7ccb

FIA clarification has no impact on Red Bull says Horner

Christian Horner from Red Bull Racing has responded to the FIA's clarification on ride height systems by saying "It has absolutely no impact on the specification of our car", in an interveiw with our colleagues at 'autosport'.

After excellent performances in the first three qualifing sessions of the 2010 season, the RB6 has been at the forefront of accusations from other teams suggesting that the Red Bull car has some sort of ride height system on the 2010 challenger. However, after declaring the RB6 legal to race on Sunday, the FIA deemed any such system illegal.

With the Red Bull Racing car being at the centre of such controversy, Christian Horner has responded in an interveiw with 'autosport' by saying, "No. The car that we will take to China will be exactly the same mechanically as it was in the first three races. It has absolutely no impact on the specification of our car."

"I don't know what they have on their cars, so all I know is that it has no impact on Red Bull, despite suggestions to the contrary."

"Fundamentally, we've got a fast car. The guys have done a good job and it's inevitably one of those things that people perhaps make accusations when you are running competitively," he said. "But I take it as a compliment. I'm sure if we were running 14th, similar accusations wouldn't be made."

[autogyro]

So the jury is still out then and the FIA is still failing to clarify what
'ride height control' actualy is.
We all know that active suspension is against the regulations but how can ride height control be? Every car has it in one form or another.

[fizzer]

So the jury is still out then and the FIA is still failing to clarify what
'ride height control' actualy is.
We all know that active suspension is against the regulations but how can ride height control be? Every car has it in one form or another.

Are they?
"Any system, device or procedure, the purpose and/or the effect of which is to change the set up of the suspension whilst the car is under parc ferme conditions will be deemed to contravene Article 34.5 of the F1 Sporting Regulations," it read, adding that; "any self levelling damper system is likely to contravene (article) 3.15 of the technical regulations."

Seems pretty clear to me. Now, what is "suspension set up"? Its broad enough that they could pretty much nail you no matter what changes under parc ferme.

Most the teams DO have ride height control, but they can only use it during the races in pit stops.

source: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=40453