Khamsin Virtual Racecar challenge 2013 (CFD model racing)

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
etsmc
etsmc
7
Joined: 04 Apr 2012, 13:20

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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just had a thought has anyone tried running a test on a car with a helmet in the car.. i noticed there is one on the scketchup warehouse that is quite good.. bit more authentic if we do it that way.. plus it can be place in the correct location in accordance with the regs.

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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etmc:

It's something we can maybe consider if that is something everyone wants to do. It would have to be a spec part in a fixed position, only allowed adjustment would be vertically in line with the tub height.

Rule Book
I expect the 2nd draft to be released this week

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RicME85
52
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 13:11
Location: Derby

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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I think it would certainly look better in the CFD images

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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i guess they do test with a drivers helmet in real like. I'll pass it by Julien obviously first and with his ok i'll find the file etmc is talking about and add it into the rule box file and write it in to the 2nd draft.

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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Draft 2 http://www.mediafire.com/view/3bla3rdeq ... draft2.pdf

Please let me know your feedback, changes from Draft 1 are in red. For consideration is K8.3 which is the rule for the sidepod cross section so please let me know your thoughts on this.

Ric, you'll see space for an appendix :)

stez90
stez90
8
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 23:31

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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k2.7 "Any outlet must be visible in its entirety when viewed from the rear of the car"..
I think we need the exception of rear wing endplates/support pylons, not only wheel/suspension..
k8.2 where are we supposed to put sidepots outlet if no apertures are allowed on them?

cdsavage
cdsavage
19
Joined: 25 Apr 2010, 13:28

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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Some comments on draft2 -

-Positioning: I know that last years cars had an offset in Z, but building with Z=0 as the reference plane makes more sense to me. If not, then you should change the offset to a round 40mm to make things easier.

-Helmet: Sounds like a good idea. Positioning should be completely fixed in X Y and Z, no need to move it for different cars since the cockpit template is also always fixed.

-Different engines: Not sure I see the point in this, won't everyone just pick the smallest one? I understand that there has been a lot of work put in to them but they arent there to form a final part of the car, they are just there to define a minimum volume for bodywork in that area.

-Still the "no less than 300mm from the car center line" for sidepod inlets? Theres no need for this since you already have the sides of the tub providing a limit here.

-Front wing pillars - you have defined it as between 88 and 275mm above the RP - this area includes the nose tip. I would define it as being between 88 and 135mm, that way the part that joins to the nose is just considered part of the nose (and is still governed by K5.5).

-K6.3: I would re-word this to be in line with K5.6

-K9.4 - You can simplify this and just state it must face directly rearward.

-K8.2 - The dimensions you mentioned here give a volume different to the one specified in 3.8.4 in the F1 regs. I know that you want to include dimensions for rules that have guide boxes, but I would make an exception in this case and just refer to the guide box (like what is being done for the overall volume for bodywork).

Not that it will make a big difference since this will be very difficult to measure, but it is also missing the language stating that you are measuring the curvature of a section of bodywork normal to the car center line, not curvature of the bodywork surface itself.

-K8.3 - You have defined the section as being 1000mm forward of the RWCL - this is well rearward of where I would expect the max sectional area of the sidepod to be. As a result it could lead to some weird looking, rearward-shifted sidepods. I would prefer for it to be defined as something like 500mm rearward of the sidepod inlet. I would imagine this is a bit more realistic too since the radiator is at the front of the sidepod.

Also you have the lower limit at 50mm (step plane), which is too low - it will include the thickness of the floor in the area measurement, as well as any blend between the sidepod and the top of the floor. I would change this to be the same as the lower limit for the R75 volume, 100mm above the RP.

Was the skp I sent you OK other than the offset in Z? It might be good to release a draft version of that as well to get feedback.
stez90 wrote:k2.7 "Any outlet must be visible in its entirety when viewed from the rear of the car"..
I think we need the exception of rear wing endplates/support pylons, not only wheel/suspension..
Seems reasonable to add an exception for rear wing support pylons (not that having pylons for the rear wing is mandatory)
stez90 wrote: k8.2 where are we supposed to put sidepots outlet if no apertures are allowed on them?
This only applies to the volume defined in the previous sentence - you are allowed holes outside this volume. The circular outlet on the RB9, for example, is just behind the rear limit of this volume. This rule should be the same as the full F1 regs (it isnt at the moment, I've mentioned it above).

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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k2.7 "Any outlet must be visible in its entirety when viewed from the rear of the car"..
I think we need the exception of rear wing endplates/support pylons, not only wheel/suspension..
?
K2.7 - will be added
-Positioning: I know that last years cars had an offset in Z, but building with Z=0 as the reference plane makes more sense to me. If not, then you should change the offset to a round 40mm to make things easier.
I don't think it shouldn't make any difference because all cars should be built within the main volume or placed inside it. So technically I don't think people will be measuring the x position but more measuring it to the main volume
-Helmet: Sounds like a good idea. Positioning should be completely fixed in X Y and Z, no need to move it for different cars since the cockpit template is also always fixed.
Is on the agenda
-Different engines: Not sure I see the point in this, won't everyone just pick the smallest one? I understand that there has been a lot of work put in to them but they arent there to form a final part of the car, they are just there to define a minimum volume for bodywork in that area.
It was going to be on the basis if they were around the same size, just hopefully different shapes or whatever. The only engine now will be etmc's as he was the only one to come forward and offer his (although only the engine will be used). It was kind of an open idea/offer - I do see you point and looking back I agree.
-Still the "no less than 300mm from the car center line" for sidepod inlets? Theres no need for this since you already have the sides of the tub providing a limit here.
thanks, forgot to remove it
-Front wing pillars - you have defined it as between 88 and 275mm above the RP - this area includes the nose tip. I would define it as being between 88 and 135mm, that way the part that joins to the nose is just considered part of the nose (and is still governed by K5.5).
Ye that's a good idea
-K6.3: I would re-word this to be in line with K5.6
would be easier
-K9.4 - You can simplify this and just state it must face directly rearward.
I agree
-K8.3 - You have defined the section as being 1000mm forward of the RWCL - this is well rearward of where I would expect the max sectional area of the sidepod to be. As a result it could lead to some weird looking, rearward-shifted sidepods. I would prefer for it to be defined as something like 500mm rearward of the sidepod inlet. I would imagine this is a bit more realistic too since the radiator is at the front of the sidepod.
I agree with what you say. My aim was to prevent tiny sidepods (unrealistic in terms of length for next year). I wonder if its worth having two cross section. One towards the front of the sidepod (500mm rearward of the sidepod inlet) and one further back (1000mm forward of the RWCL). Obviously one at the front much larger?

Yes, your right about the 50mm above RP
Rule Boxes
Ye we will be. What i want to do is tie it in with the rule book a bit better. maybe colour code a few things so i will be sorting that soon

once again thanks for you help and please give me your feedback on the above

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N12ck
11
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 19:10

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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@Astracrazy
Thankyou for stepping in, from what I can see you are doing an excellent job, its nice to see it keeping on going!
Budding F1 Engineer

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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thanks nick appreciated

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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Here is draft 3 http://www.mediafire.com/view/9zj7gacg3 ... draft3.pdf

This will be the last draft so if there is anything you would like to suggest be changed, now is the last time (unless there is a major issue before the start)

edit:

- I forgot to write in the min area of 5.6b
- Anything with colours written next to it is what it relates to with the rule box. It wasn't finished as rule book was subject to change

Schifty
Schifty
-1
Joined: 04 Dec 2013, 18:54

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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Really interesting challenge. But i have a question. Can we be register has a team, i mean if a group a people want to work on a car desigh is allowed ?

May be RaceDepartment Forum Game community will try the challenge

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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yes of course you can. Obviously one person will have to submit the car etc. but how many of you work on your car is up to you.

Julien is working on the website at the moment, bringing it up to date for 2014 and creating the forms needed for this year so registration isn't open yet, we are just going through the process of setting the foundations.

Also, remember you can download Khamsin as well so you can run your own testing (although obviously results may vary)

Pm me if you want a full run down of how it all works

Schifty
Schifty
-1
Joined: 04 Dec 2013, 18:54

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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Thank for the reply Astracrazy!

Yep for sure only one (me) will submit the car if we start the project.

I have saw all previous project and sincerely i'm pretty sure almost of them didnt really respect 2013 regulation. I dont know if your software to manage how aerodynamism work, but need to put more checking rules like if the car pass the crash test etc.

I have didnt read all the rules, but internal part like radiator size ( not need to be modeled properly but but a polycon who look like a radiator, same for fuel tank, engine and gear box. Probably lot of design cant carry them :P.

Thats my opinion. Great design, but people need to think more simple at the base before putting innovating part on the car ;)

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variante
138
Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: F1 model CFD Challenge (Khamsin Virtual Racecar challeng

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astracrazy wrote:Here is draft 3
i read it briefly and i think there's a 0 in excess in K8.3b (50000mm2 instead of 5000mm2). And yes, those measures look realistic.

I'll upload tank/engine/gearbox/crash structure complex as soon as possible... i just hoped for some more official images for greater accuracy...
Schifty wrote:...like radiator size...
there's an alternative for that: have a look at article K8.3