2019 Renault F1 Team

[santos]

I don't understand how they can get to veridict even if the car has nothing againt the technical regulations.

[Lotus102]

I don't understand how they can get to veridict even if the car has nothing againt the technical regulations.

Presumably it falls within the letter of the regulations but is felt to be outside the spirit?

[izzy]

I don't understand how they can get to veridict even if the car has nothing againt the technical regulations.

well it was a driver aid wasn't it, that was exactly its purpose. Of course lots of parts aid the driving but this was pretty clearly over the line even if the line is fuzzy

[McG]

What might be most striking with this exclusion of the Renault team, is the absence of fans who defend the team. For pete’s sake, it’s a world championship winning team and no one is offering some fact free support? Renault still has a long way to go....

This is a McLaren forum

[dren]

The FIA document states how the system works takes advantage of some gray areas of the tech regs but is legal. They don't explain how exactly it works since it ties into some proprietary Renault systems. The FIA states it allows the bias to change during a lap without driver input, which is deemed illegal in the sporting regs as that's considered a driver aid.

Just a guess, but I wonder if Renault's system looks at several inputs, e.g.; braking, throttle input, steering input, to determine where the car is in a lap, then auto adjusts the bias for the next corner. Renault could argue that brake pedal, throttle pedal, and steering wheel input is physical input that changes the bias, but that's a stretch since it isn't direct.

[Maritimer]

I think the reason its deemed illegal is precisely because the driver isnt calling for the bias charge himself, but the computer is on his behalf. Driver aid if ever there was one.

[nzjrs]

The FIA document states how the system works takes advantage of some gray areas of the tech regs but is legal. They don't explain how exactly it works since it ties into some proprietary Renault systems. The FIA states it allows the bias to change during a lap without driver input, which is deemed illegal in the sporting regs as that's considered a driver aid.

Just a guess, but I wonder if Renault's system looks at several inputs, e.g.; braking, throttle input, steering input, to determine where the car is in a lap, then auto adjusts the bias for the next corner. Renault could argue that brake pedal, throttle pedal, and steering wheel input is physical input that changes the bias, but that's a stretch since it isn't direct.

Precisely, that's what I also suggest in the ECU thread. They could argue that such a system is not technically lap distance dependent, although functionally it is doing the same thing.

[saviour stivala]

I think the reason its deemed illegal is precisely because the driver isnt calling for the bias charge himself, but the computer is on his behalf. Driver aid if ever there was one.

Exactly. "computer" the driver still had to make some inputs to instruct the program to activate.
Renault did not breach the technical regulations, by fielding an illegal car.
Renault breached the sporting regulations by providing the drivers with a drives aid.

[littlebigcat]

We know from onboard footage at Suzuka that the driver resets the system at the same point every lap, I think it was turn 12.

[Bill]

The rules around drivers aid are stupid,changing the brake bias legal inadvertently aid the driver with braking should that also be considered illegal.

[Capharol]

What might be most striking with this exclusion of the Renault team, is the absence of fans who defend the team. For pete’s sake, it’s a world championship winning team and no one is offering some fact free support? Renault still has a long way to go....

This is a McLaren forum

a small correction this is a McLaren/Red Bull/Ferrari/Mercedes forum ..... all other teams (at least if you look at the posting rate) are just space filling topics

[bauc]

So if I understood the FIA officials correctly, the technology is legal but used in unfair manner?

[Espresso]

So if I understood the FIA officials correctly, the technology is legal but used in unfair manner?

To me it looks more and more like a 'brake-bias-advisory and preparation' system.

I think/speculate as follows:

The display gives an advisory how to adjust the brake balance
The electronics prepare the necessary preparations to minimize it to a 'single' drive input.
And its up to the drive to push one (I presume an up/down switch) button to perform the action.

That should be within the technical regulations.

Given what happened I expect the FIA to close this GAP and amend the technical regulations in the coming months. When they amend it, then it might become clear what Renault exactly did.


Edit:
Found some additional info:
It seems RP already had doubts from the beginning of the season.
Best explained from the GoPro on RIC's helmet (beginning season)

Renault also doesn't execute the right to protest the stewards decision. So the decision seems final.


Steering wheel
- Top-left display shows the brake balance.
- On the right you see a red button with a red light that keeps flashing on. Which seems to be an indication to the driver: "Next brake balance setting prepared, push the button to apply".



Sources:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ricciardo/
https://thejudge13.com/2019/10/25/break ... -cheating/

[simplefan]

^ Nonsense with the red flashing light and the button. It's what it has been for many years at Renault, "R" for radio. Light indicates transmitting.

[Espresso]

I think the reason its deemed illegal is precisely because the driver isnt calling for the bias charge himself, but the computer is on his behalf. Driver aid if ever there was one.

Exactly. "computer" the driver still had to make some inputs to instruct the program to activate.
Renault did not breach the technical regulations, by fielding an illegal car.
Renault breached the sporting regulations by providing the drivers with a drives aid.

The question is:
What is drivers aid. The arguments and the reasoning are all in the grey area.
The punishment is very harsh. Especially given the reasoning of the ruling.

To be blunt:

Keeping in mind the reasoning to penalize Renault I could argue the whole field should be disqualified for using flippers to change gear.

You flip a pedal and the car changes gear. A semi-automatic gearbox. And that is a drivers aid.
Guess we have to go back to a gear shift pedal...