2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max is just extremely good at inducing rotation under braking. That is not something you teach, it's a matter of feel. If you don't have the right feel you just can't do it. And it's all a matter of balance. You need to be critical on steering input and you need to be critical on throttle application, because pedals are not just for "going fast and slowing down", they're a weight shifting tool.

You brake, weight is shifted forwards. You push on the throttle, weight is shifted backwards.
And this is important, because by lightly loading the fronts, you can actually get a bit more front grip and 'push' the car to whatever direction it is currently headed. Also an unloaded rear, counter-intuitively, sometimes can be settled down by applying a little more throttle (context is important here, this is only true if it happens as a result of over-rotation at the front. If you actually brake the grip-limit of the rear tires, there's nothing that can save you from a spin).

This video (more simracing oriented, but the technique mirrors real life) is probably the one that explains the 'braking' rotation the best

Now all of this, brings me back to the 'feel' point that I made earlier. If you don't have the proper feel, you try to do it 'manually', but this almost never works out. You have to drive on instinct and let your 'feel' guide the car through the corner. It's glaringly obvious in the telemetry that Lawson has no feel with this car whatsoever. Especially in qualifying in China. Not a single lap by Lawson was driven the same. Sometimes he brakes early, sometimes he brakes late. Sometimes he carries the brakes for longer, sometimes he waits to get on the throttle. It's just different almost every single lap. He is just trying to get laptime somehow, because he has no real feel for the car.

A car that "tricks" you and doesn't behave as you expect will just ruin the feel you have for it. Then your brain shuts off your instincts and tries to react "manually" to the "anomaly" instead. The moment you no longer drive on instinct and your "active" brain is involved, you're automatically slower. This is where the problem lies with RedBull and their second drivers. The car must behave in such a peculiar manner, that only Max has the experience (+ talent) to get on top of it. It is highly unlikely this characteristic will change this year. All they can hope now is that they find a second driver that likes and expects similar things from a car as Max does, or that whoever is on that second seat is extremely adaptable and gets on top of the car with a couple of races of experience.
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ringo
232
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It can even be the opposite.. Max does not need feel.. just like in Sim racing. Lawson is probably working more on a closed loop. Feeling first then reacting; which takes a longer time in control. Max provably is on open loop control most of the time and only switches to closed loop if the car is doing what he did not predict it should do. :lol:
It could explain being able to drive regardless of the car's behavior. There is less fear or tentativeness.

Anyhow, the car is not in Championship shape. And Lawson will be a non factor if Max has to fight so hard to even be P3. The constructors just would not be on at all, even if Lawson somehow improves to 2.5 tenths slower than Max.
For Sure!!

venkyhere
venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
25 Mar 2025, 02:00
Max is very peculiar with his corner entry coupled with PU and downshift calibration. It could be the other drivers just aren't that smart or detailed to deep dive into what it takes to get the car in the goldie locks zone in the corners.
Max's eaerly breaking has more meaning to it that just a driving style. It may well be what's required and not simply a style he drives.
The instability in the car doesnt facilitate last minute braking, the driver just wont have enough time to react when the instability sets in. That could be where the edgyness lies.
There are 1000s of instances where Max brakes late, prioritizes entry and sacrifices exit ; instead of the other way around. It will depend on the 'situation', which of the two styles at a particular corner provides more 'gain' in the overall lap ; he doesn't drive in a fixed pattern (which is the reason for his success). I can say this with confidence, after staring at comparison lap traces in f1-tempo on many occasions.

ringo wrote:
25 Mar 2025, 04:34
It can even be the opposite.. Max does not need feel.. just like in Sim racing. Lawson is probably working more on a closed loop. Feeling first then reacting; which takes a longer time in control. Max provably is on open loop control most of the time and only switches to closed loop if the car is doing what he did not predict it should do. :lol:
It could explain being able to drive regardless of the car's behavior. There is less fear or tentativeness.
:D No mate, I am sure you know that this is impossible and out of the question. He is the guy who has the most amount of innate feel for the car. Car control is impossible without feedback. Open loop is not possible.

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
25 Mar 2025, 04:34
Anyhow, the car is not in Championship shape. And Lawson will be a non factor if Max has to fight so hard to even be P3. The constructors just would not be on at all, even if Lawson somehow improves to 2.5 tenths slower than Max.
The comment on P3 is nonsense. Of course the McL will be P1 and P2, but Max could genuinely beat Russel. If it goes on like this, one main decider will be if Merc or Redbull gets the second driver ahead on a track that suits them. Similar for WCC, if Lawson would be where Ant is and there he should be, the race would be on.
Same goes for Ferrari. They will eventually stop beating themselves. But they will continue as this season and as all last seasons to have on and off weekends. The key to beat them is to get the second driver ahead once they take one of the off weekends.
Don`t russel the hamster!

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Joined: 24 Feb 2022, 13:41

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max/RB wins stuff by maximising off weekends. That's how he won 21, that's how he won 24. He just does not screw up.

Max has a poor weekend and finishes P3.

With 6 cars in the mix for P1 and even some midfield teams knocking on the door, this season is likely won if you average p3.

And the role of strategy is not to be underestimated here. How often have we seen weekends where teams had the strategic upper hand on the starting grid (because the 2nd rb driver messed up) and how often have they been able to force max's hand?

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organic
1106
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Die Limburger (newspaper from the local region where Verstappen is from) reports that Red Bull have decided to replace Lawson with Yuki Tsunoda for Japan onwards.

https://www.limburger.nl/sport/auto-mot ... aign=share
During a high-level meeting of Red Bull's parent company in Dubai on Tuesday, it was decided that Liam Lawson's time at Red Bull Racing has come to an end. He will be immediately swapped with Yuki Tsunoda from Racing Bulls.
Another interesting quote
What makes the choice of Lawson even more notable is that Honda had been willing to pay an additional 10 million euros to Red Bull if they chose Tsunoda as a replacement for Sergio Pérez in 2025. Honda already pays 10 million euros annually for Tsunoda's Racing Bulls seat, but they were willing to double that if the Japanese driver were to land the second seat alongside Verstappen.

Horner dismissed the offer at the time, but sources have told De Limburger that such a deal is now on the table. The savvy top brass at Red Bull Racing has reached out to the Japanese multinational in recent days and literally asked how much they are willing to pay to have Tsunoda race alongside Verstappen for the rest of the year. Reports indicate that Honda is willing to pay several million for their dream transfer.

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It's confirmed now. Yuki to the main team.

Expecting sky etc to report soon

Verstappen insider van Haren next:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/16267721 ... iam-lawson

Luscion
Luscion
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Joined: 13 Feb 2023, 01:37

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
25 Mar 2025, 21:58
It's confirmed now. Yuki to the main team.

Expecting sky etc to report soon

Verstappen insider van Haren next:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/16267721 ... iam-lawson

Autoracer and Canal+ reporting it too

https://autoracer.it/it/clamorosa-retro ... so-tsunoda


SoulPancake13
SoulPancake13
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Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:49

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Well that is Liam's time in F1 done then. Lindblad will come and replace him next year 100% considering Red Bull rate him very highly.

f1isgood
f1isgood
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Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Tsunoda is in a do or die situation. No points in Japan would see him out in one weekend with how it's going.

All this over-correction for not sacking Perez earlier (in 2023) and throwing away a constructors.
Call a spade, a spade.

euv2
euv2
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Joined: 14 Mar 2025, 09:34

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic wrote:
25 Mar 2025, 21:48
Die Limburger (newspaper from the local region where Verstappen is from) reports that Red Bull have decided to replace Lawson with Yuki Tsunoda for Japan onwards.

https://www.limburger.nl/sport/auto-mot ... aign=share
During a high-level meeting of Red Bull's parent company in Dubai on Tuesday, it was decided that Liam Lawson's time at Red Bull Racing has come to an end. He will be immediately swapped with Yuki Tsunoda from Racing Bulls.
Another interesting quote
What makes the choice of Lawson even more notable is that Honda had been willing to pay an additional 10 million euros to Red Bull if they chose Tsunoda as a replacement for Sergio Pérez in 2025. Honda already pays 10 million euros annually for Tsunoda's Racing Bulls seat, but they were willing to double that if the Japanese driver were to land the second seat alongside Verstappen.

Horner dismissed the offer at the time, but sources have told De Limburger that such a deal is now on the table. The savvy top brass at Red Bull Racing has reached out to the Japanese multinational in recent days and literally asked how much they are willing to pay to have Tsunoda race alongside Verstappen for the rest of the year. Reports indicate that Honda is willing to pay several million for their dream transfer.
Disappointing move from Red bull, I expected them to give him at least 6 races. 2 weekends is just way to short a time, definitely influenced by the 20m Honda will cough up for Tsunoda.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
367
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I'm excited by the swap. You all are getting bogged down by fear. This is great opportunity for everyone. The truth is that testing and 2 races was enough to understand Lawson's potential in this car. Drivers who will do well in that car, do not take long to show it. Look at the other drivers in the 2nd seat. Drivers who started poorly (Perez, Gasly, Albon), never improved. Lawson would be the same.

I think Yuki will surprise people. I remember that he and Gasly did not like the same car. Now Red Bull must do absolutely everything possible before Japan to prepare him. They should have him do some kilometers in the RB19 at Silverstone before the end of the week. He already has a great knowledge of the Honda engine.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 25 Mar 2025, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.
A lion must kill its prey.

Vinlarr89
Vinlarr89
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Joined: 27 Feb 2023, 14:32

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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This is all a situation of Red Bulls own doing. They haven’t got a good enough driver to back Max up, end of. Tsunoda isn’t the answer

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Vinlarr89 wrote:
25 Mar 2025, 23:19
Tsunoda isn’t the answer
You don't know that.
A lion must kill its prey.

Vinlarr89
Vinlarr89
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Joined: 27 Feb 2023, 14:32

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ok let’s wait and see. Nothing I’ve seen of him convinces me he has the temperament for that seat. Should have gone in for a Piastri but nobody wants to risk disrupting Max