Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[andrew]

It looks like Merc are losing a fair wedge of cash with their merchandising.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Merc ... -2010.html

Obviously Merc hats are as overpriced as their road cars!

[Morteza]

It looks like Merc are losing a fair wedge of cash with their merchandising.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Merc ... -2010.html

Obviously Merc hats are as overpriced as their road cars!

So they will use SLS AMG next year as W02

[xpensive]

But competition director Norbert is quoted as saying: "The media value is a hundred times the numbers you are talking about.

"But I generally don’t comment on figures,"

How convenient, but why don't you simply give those stupid hats away if the merchandise numbers are so insignificant?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

It looks like Merc are losing a fair wedge of cash with their merchandising.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Merc ... -2010.html

Obviously Merc hats are as overpriced as their road cars!

Actually the merchandise has somthing to do with it being a Henry Lloyd affectation. Double the price of the norm....
Yes Im back fellows, 2 weeks away in the Med was great I thoroughly recommend it!

In my 2 weeks away, have Mercedes GP not stretched their lead over Renault again?

[marcush.]

exp..rightly so..in germany there is a -admittedly very rude ways -to name this :-get your backside towards the wall- or in other words ,beasts trapped in a corner are likely to bite....
So I´m sure Norbert is already working on saving his ass... and as he surely can´t officially say his Dream was nothing but a dream ...so he realised in the last weeks ..there is avery real possibility that Schumacher will not win races not even speaking of a championship...he now has to redirect his own personal ship...as Schumacher might become a threat for his own occupation (maybe even replacing him?)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

C'mon guys, you appear to be digesting alot of this tabloid dross.
Schumachers return is tantamount to the return of the motorsport christ or satan, depending on your point of view.
He IS the story. Press will make a story of the biggest story of all, it happens in every sport. And yes he has been overshadowed by Rosberg, but does that really mean he cant win?

I dont think so, and I feel for Haug having to constantly defend Schumacher when its quite clear the problem at Mercedes GP isnt driver orientated, now is it?
Yea he nearly slammed barrichello into a wall, but that shows the team he aint giving up easy(even if the manouvre was er...iffy).

I not only think Mercedes will win at least 1 GP next year, I also see Schumacher still driving for them(even if he doesnt win). And like the Mercedes victory Im willing to put a wager on it!

[xpensive]

But this is not about MS JET, it's about the entire concept, it's about a former journo who was taken to xtent he thought he could bargain his way to success and show his old ally; "Look Ron, no hands!" The MS saga was just thinking with your heart.

[segedunum]

It looks like Merc are losing a fair wedge of cash with their merchandising.

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Merc ... -2010.html

Goodness me. Interesting that Red Bull are selling more than even Ferrari, but in a way it shouldn't be surprising.

It's funny that some people around here were arguing that it didn't matter about Michael's poor performances. It was all about the publicity and marketing!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

But this is not about MS JET, it's about the entire concept, it's about a former journo who was taken to xtent he thought he could bargain his way to success and show his old ally; "Look Ron, no hands!" The MS saga was just thinking with your heart.

Xpensive,

I think it is you who needs to realise somthing here. Haug HOPED Mercedes would challenge, he never EXPECTED to beat Mclaren especially not in the first season.
Any team worth its salt should be looking at race wins pre season. Mercedes/Brawn had those intentions otherwise why would they be there. Unfortunatley it hasnt happened, but 4th place in your first season isnt a catastrophe as some would paint it. There is just no way you can call this a disaster.

There are reasons for the current plight, most of them arent Haugs or Mercedes fault as this car was being constructed befroe their involvement.
So with any project there will some teething problems.

Comparing Mclaren with their 30 year plus continuos F1 participation, to Mercedes who in all fairness are in their first after 50 odd years out, is unfair.
Haug knows that as would any sane being.
The issues at hand are that Mercedes and Haug hoped for more and so far the reality is quite far from the pitch.
But when I see fingers pointed at someone like Haug, who isnt the usuall suite like a Ron or Luca or even Horner, then I have to question the motives behind it.

Its your opinion and I respect it, but when you add your artistic licence it dont half come across as someone who dislikes Haug on a personal level.
He is beyond reproach in my book. Unless of course it was he who is to blame for the chassis stiffness issues....

[segedunum]

Sadly JET, we have been over every excuse you've given there.......and you're blissfully wandering on as if we've never discussed it. I see some reflection in the sun has done little for your memory.

Mercedes and Haug did expect to win this year because after several years development as Honda they had a dominant car last season. Mercedes and Haug expected that to continue and Schumacher would be winning again.

The team were winning, so 4th place is a backwards step. What's more disconcerting is the points gap and how far they have to go to get back to winning and how far they've fallen behind.

Brawn had more than enough money and resources to develop this year's car, so we've flogged that dead horse.

You're trying to twist this around to talk about Mercedes as a racing organisation, but THAT TEAM as an entity has been in existence for many years now. Mercedes did not start their own race team from scratch I'm afraid. That's why they bought it.

Haug gets fingers pointed at him because he comes across as extremely naive. They pulled out of McLaren because they couldn't get their own way and thought they could show them. Painting this as some personal vendetta against Haug is a bit bizarre.

[marcush.]

I have to admit ,nobody would go blind into a engagement of that size.But effectively Brawn was able to sell his stable with good profit to Merc thanks to circumstances heaven sent.Or was it Bernie himself? well it does not matter now.
Reality is :Norbert played a key role there and he sold his dream (the dream he thought was not going to happen due to expiry date)suddenly apeared looming at the horizon.
Nobody really realized that this was also a considerable risk and it is typical for the big companies that they really know how to debate and challenge for the last cent but have no idea how to negotiate a big deal (See how Honda ,Toyota,BMW ended their F1 engagements...with BMw really looking a lot more silly than Merc is now!).
So to let Norbi convince the Mercedes board with that nice coloured painting of a golden future with Schumi bagging the WDC in short time is really something..but not unusual ..because these bigheads basically have not a clue ,simple as that.
You can only decide on what you are presented with .If the truth is filtered intentionally or by sentiments or whatever there is no ways you could decide with confidence....so now they are already in this spiral of task force meetings,action plans and periodic reviews of improvements.If they are half ways realistic they have already realised that even winning in 2011 is not a given and a title is all but impossible if they are not lucky stabbing on the next ddd difusser ...Trying to catch up with neweys 2009 ideas for sure is not very promising prospects....they have to learn how he did things two years ago as a first step...as Brawn already admitted.
So the target would be to get hold of Newey or equivalent.
First you need something that CAN win a GP the Wo01 was not even near a win in 2010.Then you can put the clamp on MS to deliver.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

with BMW really looking a lot more silly than Merc is now!.

Marcush, precisley!
Mercedes have forayed into F1 at near enough 1/5 of BMW's initial F1 outlay for its Hinwil based outfit. And they have the balls to do so in the face of a huge manufacturer withdrawal in F1. Still, some will criticise Mercedes-Benz/Haug for doing so.

See the thing is, Haug and Zetsche have hunger. If they hadnt, this whole project would be a pipe dream and the BGP002 would be sans silberpfeile livery.
People question Mercedes and Schumachers involvement after an inauspicious start. This is not a slight, this is in fact a compliment to all involved. As expectations are sky high. Ferrari in 1996? Mclaren in 1994? Red Bull in 2005? Where where they? NOWHERE. So we can safely say there is a precedent!


The way I would put this into perspective is quite simple and also very startling.
Renualt are in 5th, and appear to be doing "well" in their 10th season having bought Bennetton($120 million which is MORE than Mercedes paid) in 2000.
Yet Mercedes-benz in their first season are in 4th at an initial outlay less than that of Renualt, and here they are being slain on this forum!

As ever, I remain a staunch supporter of Mercedes-Benz. This should not be held against me in this forum as a means of "blind faith". I readily admit to the teams failings which appear to be more than expected. But the individuals involved like Haug, Brawn and Zetsche et al all did this with the best intentions for Mercedes-Benz.
Be that as it may, Mercedes expect more than has so far been produced. Was it any different to when Mansell came back with the Mercedes powered Mclaren "boat" in 1995?


No it wasnt.... look how that EPISODE came to a conclusion.
Mansell off before half the season was over! Yet Here Mercedes benz are 15 years later as the second most succesful power units after Ferrari.

Perspective.

[Giblet]

About the 95 Mcalaren from Mansel - "Looks like a tank, drives like a tank."

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

About the 95 Mcalaren from Mansel - "Looks like a tank, drives like a tank."

There we go Giblet.

Do we hear any dissenters regard Mercedes-Benz' Mclaren involvement?

[mx_tifoso]

Locked. This due to nothing new or seriously relevant coming from this discussion, and running around in pointless circles with a bad sense of humour does not cut it.