Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[Mr.S]

Not really. This is not Marussia you know. IF MSC does not resign it will be a PR disaster for Mercedes. I dont see any such High Profile Replacement. Michael winning in Silver Arrows is the stuff of dreams for Mercedes.

This team was 4th fastest in 2010 & was quicker than Mclaren or Ferrai in many races & on merit. In Turker they were hands down quicker than Ferrari,Malaysia they were the 3rd quickest team. They gained 2 or 3 Podiums which they might have gained if they were not 1.2-1.5s off the Pace of RBR.

Brawn GP was a WDC-WCC team regardless of whatever you say JET. And without EBD Mclaren were barely quicker than a Mercedes car which had MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL FLAWS. If Status QUO is maintained then there will be some firing.

I dont know if it means Brawn or Haug getting the boot. Maybe moving Willis to TP. Or Bell & Willis re-shuffled. They will be a reaction. I saw Dr. Zetsche's interview & he is desperate to re-sign Michael. I doubt if he will accept any more failures.

2-3 Podiums is essentially going back to 2010. Two Consecutive 4th place.

You ask me how can I know?? Well Ross Brawn has got the message from Mercedes Board. I saw his interview & its clear. The way he forcefully said we were 4th place for 2 years when we should have been atleast 3rd this year. He said that they need to be atleast 3rd or 4th this year & needs to MOVE UP. That another 4th place in UNacceptable & they want results now that they have a Strong technical team.

The message is LOUD & CLEAR. Move up or Step Aside. Mercedes Board WONT ACCEPT another 4th. They wont waste their time seeing if Mercedes have closes 2-3 tenths. THEY WANT FINAL DEFINITIVE results & not another season of stagnation in terms of final results. Hope this satisfies you. My Expectations are fairly reasonable.

However this is no HRT. Teams like Force India & Lotus are talking of Podiums & taking a big step & it is shameful Mercedes having such LOW expectations

[RB7ate9]

JET, after witnessing the eschewed expectations of upper management on their engineering teams, I am inclined to fear for Brawn this season. As stated before about Mercedes being a major constructor team, the upper management (read: corporate managers) want results: "Ross Brawn, we bought you because you guys just won the WDC/WCC! Where are OUR titles?"

I am afraid the Mercedes F1 team will potentially be another victim, not of Mr. S' unrealistic expectations, but of faceless yet powerful suits looking more at spreadsheets than at race footage.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ Mr S

Of course Mercedes GP arent Marussia, they pass crash tests and finished 4th.
Huge difference.

And your expectations of Mercedes beating Ferrari, in F1 since the start, McLaren in F1 since the 60s, and Red Bull with its huge budget and crafty dealings with interpretations of laws allied to Adrain Newey, the greatest genius F1 has known is basically just a pipe dream.

Mercedes knows its current position. Comparing Mercedes now, to the top 3 in terms of facilities, staff knowhow and experience you will see that Mercedes are still far behind. It takes time to build championships as you can see from any precedent in the history of F1.
I'm a fan of Mercedes but I'm not a blinkered fan to believe that you paint the cars silver and they have a right to win. This is not the case.

The effort gone into this project by Mercedes is immense, they were unlucky with certain interpretations of rules by other teams regarding the RRA and this set them back even more.

As for the Brawn car being a championship winning car. Yes it was, with 18 months development time and the biggest budget any car in the history of F1 has ever had.
Allied to the double diffuser, you could see that once Red bull mastered the innovation that the RB5 was in fact quicker despite its pull rod rear suspension(less room to accommodate a DDD).

So understanding the above what do you expect of Mercedes? to throw 300 million at at the W02 in November 2009(despite the RRA), and forget about the W01 as it was already in gestation at Brawn while under cutbacks? Would you hope for another miracle device such as the DDD?

All these things add up. You do not undertand the situation on the ground so to speak. Rome was not built in a day, and to expect Mercedes to leapfrog Ferrari based on one test is so premature its barely worthy of comment to be frank.

@RB7ate9

I have seen these faceless suits myself. Dr Zetsche is hardly faceless, and he has a vision for Mercedes that includes F1. Failure is not an option and while the results are painful to all Mercedes followers including myself, I think Mercedes are setting about their business in a fashion that benefits them longterm rather than the no guarantee formula of burning copious amounts of cash like every other manufacturer.

Mercedes will come good. They just need time, patience and understanding.

[Rikhart]

My very sketchy translation:

The w03 is full of innovations (or novelties), so it has picked up a lot of interest all around. There is the f-duct front wing, but the biggest surprise was the appearence of a 15cm slot in the diffuser. in the end part of the engine cover there is a big oval hole with a flashy ducting that channels into the wing, and also the famous double diffuser. The hot air seems to converge on this central zone. fotos of the w03 are in the technical offices of many teams. It´s also interesting to note that also in the ferrari there is a duct that allows air to pass from the engine cover to the inferior profile of the rear wing. Its possible the ferrari also could have a double diffuser with the melbourne version

I wouldnt trust it to be the best translation ever, but the main gist of it is correct.

[Gerhard Berger]

Ive got a feeling Nico can beat Seb in qualy or take him to the limit. Nico is a tremendous qualifier.

I doubt he would beat him. Mark Webber is an excellent qualifier and Vettel has easily had the measure of him in qualifying. Vettel is without a doubt one of the best qualifiers the sport has seen. I suppose the team mate comparison also compliments Rosberg as Schumacher was also excellent in qualifying (pre 2010), but it remains to be seen whether Schumacher's lost some of his form since his hiatus, or whether Rosberg is just that much better than him.

The Red Bull is simply too good in qualifying in the last 2 years. 33 out of 38 poles in the last 2 seasons speaks for itself. Alonso and Hamilton, who are regarded as brilliant qualifiers and 2 of the fastest guys in F1 have just 4 poles between them in the last 2 years. Massa and Button (who also have multiple pole positions to their name) have none.

Kovaleinen also destroyed Trulli (another so called "qualifying expert"), yet he gets very little recognition because it is not for pole position.

[dren]

Delayed the debut of its Mercedes W03 has held forth in the interest of technical enthusiasts. The car made ​​under the direction of ross brawn, assisted by aldo coast, and jam packed with news. Since the last races of 2011 we have talked about blowing a brand new front wing baptized simplistically f-duct, a patent that allows you to route the air flow that affects the nose of the car depending on the angle of yaw. however, more attention is focused on the quasi double diffuser raised in the central area of 15 cm (on which the regulation seems incomplete) to pass the crash structure .

Reasons: In practice Mercedes would use the same concept introduced at the front channeling air into the cental area of the diffuser. at the end of the engine cover there is in fact a large oval hole that hides within it an obvious channel that leads air inside of the lower wing to get through the crash structure to the famous double diffuser. Also the hot air of the exhaust seems to flow in the same central area. Needless to say, pictures of Mercedes W03 are in all the technical departments of the various teams.

Red: however, interesting to note that even the Ferrari F2012 there a tube that allows passage of air between the end of the bonnet and lower profile rear wing. we'll see the red back on track in addition to type exhaust montmelo red bull could therefore have a double diffuser as well as the Melbourne version of the front wing.

Above the picture:
Highlighted in yellow the double diffuser made ​​in the area of 15 cm off limits at the confluence of the flows of air and discharges of both the blowing that arrives from the central part of the engine bonnet.

[Mr.S]

This is embarassing. Read you reply. So Ferrari have in F1 since the 50's & Mclaren since the 60's so Mercedes cant beat them.

Well newsflash for you JET -> Mercedes' team was originally found in 1958. This is the remains of Tyrell as Brawn said. This is not a NEW team. This is a WDC/WCC team as Brawn GP & this was a HONDA team which had a 700 Million budget & Gigantic Facilities. The team which Red Bull Jaguar was a mid-field team which was struggling for finaces while Honda was pumping 700 Million in. Yes they dont have the same number of staff. But this is not Team founded yesterday

Mercedes is an autombile giant. It has ben in Formula since atleast 15 years as a partner of Mclaren. They have THE BEST ENGINE overall & Best KERS system regardless of whatever you say. They have Ross Brawn whose achievement are FAR bigger in terms of End results than Adrian Newey even though Brawn might not be a Tech Wizard.

They have Bob Bell,TD behind Alonso's 2005-06 Winning Cars. They have Costa,one of the most successful engineers in Ferrari history. They have Willis. They have a 7 time World Champion & a damn Fast guy in Nico. They have no Budget Issues. They have the Best Simulator. Multiple Wind Tunnels,although 1 can be used. They have a good CFD.

This is their 3rd year & 4th YEAR since Honda left. This is getting ridiculous now. They are a Solid 4th Place team. Rule Changers should benefit them. If they cant get 3rd place atleast with Multiple podiums & atleast 1 race Victory then I doubt if they EVER will.

Mercedes will throw in the towel. MSC being there is a HUGE boost for the Mercedes Board. Like it or not. Him leaving because in 3 years Mercedes Flopped & Failed to provide a Championship Winning car is a PR disaster. Ross Brawn has said it loud & clear. That after two 4th places they have to move up. To 3rd if not 2nd position. And 2 Race Victories is the target.

This is Mercedes Board who are pumping in money & who wont watch 20 races to see their former partner Mclaren beating them every race. They wont watch 20 races to see a Ferrari car lapping a Mercedes car. Do you understand how big a matter of shame this is???

This is CORPORATE world. People want Results. Nobody gives a --- if you got 20 points more & improved 3 tenths more. You still are 4th. And they were 4th in 2010 only 5-6 tenths off many races like Turkey.

[Gerhard Berger]

Ferrari are in the DOGhouse,knowing ferarri they have the capability to still win multiple races this year. But the real Kick in the Ass for them would be Fernando saying " THE CAR works only good in a VERY SHORT WINDOW" & that "This car would be struggle in longer races with varied setups" more. Or Something like that. Probably should not have the quoted.

Mercedes can honestly beat Ferrari. Nico's test was good enought for a Low to Mid 1-20's atleast while the best Massa could do in a Soft Tyre 2 Qualy Lap Run was 1.23.6 odd. This is Mercedes' Golden Chance. The car is fundamentally Good. Despite 2 Tests Ferrari say they only 20% of their car while 8 days of running can be like a WHOLE SEASON of GP Weekends.

Costa,Willis & Bell have been working 3 months now. Bell for almost a year. Costa for 5-6 months. There should be something Big for Mugello. I am confident that Ferrari cant sort out their car in the first 2-3 races.

I don't remember Alonso saying anything like what you've quoted. Do you have a source for that?

Also, he made the "we only understand 20% of the car" remark after the first test in Jerez.

[NewtonMeter]

This is embarassing. Read you reply. So Ferrari have in F1 since the 50's & Mclaren since the 60's so Mercedes cant beat...blah blah blah

Mr. S, you need to get laid.

[Mr.S]

This is embarassing. Read you reply. So Ferrari have in F1 since the 50's & Mclaren since the 60's so Mercedes cant beat...blah blah blah

Mr. S, you need to get laid.

Haha. Shut up. I get my piece of pie,cant handle anymore. Its just that I had a rough day yesterday. Maybe thats why I am too much online. Just letting go.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This is embarassing. Read you reply. So Ferrari have in F1 since the 50's & Mclaren since the 60's so Mercedes cant beat them.

Yes, so they have more experience. And the embarrassment here is yours.

Well newsflash for you JET -> Mercedes' team was originally found in 1958.

You actually call yourself a fan and cannot fathom that Mercedes
a)were grand prix racing in the 30s
b)raced with Fangio in 1954/55 then withdrew from top level motorsport until their return as and engine manufacturer in 1993 with Sauber.
c) they returned as a full blown manufacturer in 2010
d) the difference in having 50 years off? and being continuously involved?

Thats a near 50 year hiatus as a manufacturer, yet you want to judge them alongside Ferrari and McLaren in their 3rd season? Do you expect an evolution of Fangios W196? That is laughable I'm afraid.
You also forget that Tyrell and Honda not once challenged the establishment. Not once in all their time as a Team. So you expect Mercedes to paint the cars silver and presto! Winning team?

In your dreams maybe.

Using your own measurements of failure and success, Mercedes-Benz should not have been in F1 as an engine manufacturer.
Here are the facts for you to peruse:
1993 No wins No podiums
1994 No wins No podiums
1995 No wins 2 podiums
1996 No wins 6 podiums
1997 3 wins(2 of them gifts) and 4 podiums.

So in 3 seasons they got 2 podiums. Mercedes are in fact doing better as a manufacturer now than they ever did as an engine supplier, and I have the facts to back that up.

2010 No wins and 3 podiums.

Tyrell and Honda never set the world alight. Brawn got lucky, and Mercedes bought into that luck. As it transpires that Brawn isnt the Messiah, Mercedes now have the arduous task of rebuilding a team in their own image.
I for one appreciate the hardships, as any victories in the first year would have been hollow rebadged victories.

By your very own rhetoric and standard Mercedes should have called it quits way back in 1995. It was a tough time, but Mercedes hung on in there and look where it got them? Now you trumpet them as "the BEST engine" forgetting everything on how they got their in the first place.
You are not looking at this logically and have a severe case of fanboy red mist going on IMO. I would suggest sitting back and realising the scope of this project before making any more outlandish demands of this team.

I say, have some perspective please.

[Pierce89]

This is embarassing. Read you reply. So Ferrari have in F1 since the 50's & Mclaren since the 60's so Mercedes cant beat them.

Yes, so they have more experience. And the embarrassment here is yours.

Well newsflash for you JET -> Mercedes' team was originally found in 1958.

You actually call yourself a fan and cannot fathom that Mercedes
a)were grand prix racing in the 30s
b)raced with Fangio in 1954/55 then withdrew from top level motorsport until their return as and engine manufacturer in 1993 with Sauber.
c) they returned as a full blown manufacturer in 2010
d) the difference in having 50 years off? and being continuously involved?

Thats a near 50 year hiatus as a manufacturer, yet you want to judge them alongside Ferrari and McLaren in their 3rd season? Do you expect an evolution of Fangios W196? That is laughable I'm afraid.
You also forget that Tyrell and Honda not once challenged the establishment. Not once in all their time as a Team. So you expect Mercedes to paint the cars silver and presto! Winning team?

In your dreams maybe.

Using your own measurements of failure and success, Mercedes-Benz should not have been in F1 as an engine manufacturer.
Here are the facts for you to peruse:
1993 No wins No podiums
1994 No wins No podiums
1995 No wins 2 podiums
1996 No wins 6 podiums
1997 3 wins(2 of them gifts) and 4 podiums.

So in 3 seasons they got 2 podiums. Mercedes are in fact doing better as a manufacturer now than they ever did as an engine supplier, and I have the facts to back that up.

2010 No wins and 3 podiums.

Tyrell and Honda never set the world alight. Brawn got lucky, and Mercedes bought into that luck. As it transpires that Brawn isnt the Messiah, Mercedes now have the arduous task of rebuilding a team in their own image.
I for one appreciate the hardships, as any victories in the first year would have been hollow rebadged victories.

By your very own rhetoric and standard Mercedes should have called it quits way back in 1995. It was a tough time, but Mercedes hung on in there and look where it got them? Now you trumpet them as "the BEST engine" forgetting everything on how they got their in the first place.
You are not looking at this logically and have a severe case of fanboy red mist going on IMO. I would suggest sitting back and realising the scope of this project before making any more outlandish demands of this team.

I say, have some perspective please.

give it up JET. Over in the F2012 thread he claims Ferrari are 3.5 seconds a lap down =D>

[Pierce89]

Ferrari are in the DOGhouse,knowing ferarri they have the capability to still win multiple races this year. But the real Kick in the Ass for them would be Fernando saying " THE CAR works only good in a VERY SHORT WINDOW" & that "This car would be struggle in longer races with varied setups" more. Or Something like that. Probably should not have the quoted.

Mercedes can honestly beat Ferrari. Nico's test was good enought for a Low to Mid 1-20's atleast while the best Massa could do in a Soft Tyre 2 Qualy Lap Run was 1.23.6 odd. This is Mercedes' Golden Chance. The car is fundamentally Good. Despite 2 Tests Ferrari say they only 20% of their car while 8 days of running can be like a WHOLE SEASON of GP Weekends.

Costa,Willis & Bell have been working 3 months now. Bell for almost a year. Costa for 5-6 months. There should be something Big for Mugello. I am confident that Ferrari cant sort out their car in the first 2-3 races.

I don't remember Alonso saying anything like what you've quoted. Do you have a source for that?

Also, he made the "we only understand 20% of the car" remark after the first test in Jerez.

Massa did nothing like a quali sim. I'm sorry bro, but you're coming off all crazy and stuff.

[Pierce89]

This team was 4th fastest in 2010 & was quicker than Mclaren or Ferrai in many races & on merit. In Turker they were hands down quicker than Ferrari,Malaysia they were the 3rd quickest team. They gained 2 or 3 Podiums which they might have gained if they were not 1.2-1.5s off the Pace of RBR.

sorry but they were never quicker than Macca or Ferrari on merit last year.

Mods: truly sorry but this guy is getting under my skin. (which is embarrassing)

[SchumiSutil]

Mercedes can honestly beat Ferrari. Nico's test was good enought for a Low to Mid 1-20's atleast while the best Massa could do in a Soft Tyre 2 Qualy Lap Run was 1.23.6 odd. This is Mercedes' Golden Chance. The car is fundamentally Good. Despite 2 Tests Ferrari say they only 20% of their car while 8 days of running can be like a WHOLE SEASON of GP Weekends.

Well well well... You're joking or what ?
I honestly don't know if the MGP W03 is faster than the F2012 but what you're writing is an accumluation of non sense.