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RightGitanesBlondes wrote:If an engine blows up because it can't handle the rigors of the race, but that will be addressed by the engine builders back in Maranello, it's just a tad bit different than being force to homologate the engines...or trying to sneak in upgrades under the guise of safety. It was fun to see the engine builders try to improve their engines whether or not they won anything.FoxHound wrote:So Hang on a minute.... May I summarise?
Engines blowing up showed that the tech was advanced or that the rules allowed for innovation?
Or, is it that you enjoy the sport more that you are safe in the knowledge these cars used to be "innovative/advanced"?
Let's say Jean Alesi was wringing the neck of his Ferrari V12, and the pitboard came out to say..."Oi! Alesi....Calma con Cavalino Rampante!" He would then be forced to drive within himself to preserve the engine. Or there would be an inevitable blow up punctuated with alot of Italian expletives, possibly even no Pasta for a week!
But hey....his V12 was state of the art!
You do not see engines progress in any meaningful sense any longer throughout the course of a season Fox...I know you already know this. That's the sort of thing that is going to preserve Mercedes advantage for 2014, and it's an absolute joke. It'd be like telling any professional sports team, "No you are not allowed to practice or to improve your team through practice, and/or the signings of new players." Sure even if you can improve things, it's not a guaranteed recipe for success, but it's still more interesting to see a team attempt to improve so should they desire.
The larger point to all of this as I have mentioned elsewhere, is that if you genuinely want manufacturers to participate in the formula as engine suppliers or even teams, you can't hope to have that with homologation. They need to be able to see where their designs stand, and preserving the engine so it doesn't blow up is not the same as not seeing the engines ever pushed because there is no benefit to doing so. Mercedes participating is an abnormality, and Thomas Weber already admitted if the rules didn't change they would have quit. The only reason they wanted the rule change was because they knew they had an advantage internally with their knowledge on hybrid systems, that Renault couldn't match (for financial reasons) and Ferrari couldn't because they didn't spend enough time on the whole thing.
so everyone understood the competitive landscape...the teams had to approve the change (complete with the FIA buckling to Ferrari's demand that it be a v6)...including the homologation rules and when/how they could make changes...so then Mercedes did a better job than anyone else, and in your world, it is a joke that per the rules, (once again, rules that everyone agreed to), Ferrari can't now do unlimited development to catch up... 
I agree with you here. Perhaps, as I have presented my argument for this discussion I should have done a better job of choosing my words. The engineering competition still exists, but it is more or less over before the cars hit the track for the first race of the season. Mercedes did a better job than anyone else and now viewers will be treated to the probable outcome that they will win 60 % of the races and take 60 % of the available podium positions. Ferrari built a &$€£box and they have no chance to recover. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzstephenwh wrote:
Right
Lycoming wrote:Going through this thread makes me realize that, despite the FIA's silly politics, things would be so much worse if this forum collectively ran the circus.
Like I said, Ferrari got talked into the whole thing much like the in-season testing ban. Don't kid yourself there. There's other considerations at play here which is why you should read between the lines with some of these rules.stephenwh wrote:
Right
@GB I'm not sure where you are going with this or how exactly this plays into the general lack of competitiveness between teams during the season, but it is not lost on me that Ferrari gets approx $60M from Mr.E just to continue competing in F1, and Ferrari also has special Veto power over rule changes. Without a doubt, Ferrari must bear the burden of its own decision making.GitanesBlondes wrote:Like I said, Ferrari got talked into the whole thing much like the in-season testing ban. Don't kid yourself there. There's other considerations at play here which is why you should read between the lines with some of these rules.stephenwh wrote:
Right
F1 is a political sport, yes. It always has been. Anyone with a modicum of logic can see that much with a man like Ecclestone steering the sport. But.....show me a man who understands how F1 politics work?GitanesBlondes wrote:Formula 1 is politics.......................(snip)
Couple of things I want to point out to you...if you understood how politics in F1 work.............(snip)
Keep in mind to how far back some of these guys go together............. Frank stuck by Bernie through everything...you should have seen Bernie wheeling Frank around at a charity race at Silverstone in 1987 to see what kind of a relationship they have for example.