2014 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[zioture]

The hardest braking point on the Circuit de Catalunya lies ahead of turn 1. The driver has to decelerate here by 185 km/h over just 78 metres. To do that he needs just 1.17 seconds. 2,107

[mnmracer]

Is it making excuses to say that Hamilton had mechanical issues in Australia and Rosberg beat him on the score board? Is it making excuses to say that Alonso had mechanical issues in Bahrain qualifying and Räikkönen beat him on the score board?
I'm just stating facts.

And no one is arguing that Daniel was faster than Sebastian in China.

No one is saying anything about excuses , Its plain simple facts, So far we have had 20 sessions.

Ham 12 7 Ros. (1 session neither driver set a time)
Ric 13 7 Vet
Alo 15 5 Rai

And like someone said, Vettel has said that Ricciardo is out performing him

Practice sessions are a completely useless measure. Unless you believe for instance the fact that Rosberg was faster in 2 out of 3 practice sessions in Malaysia is in anyway an accurate measure considering Hamilton beat him by 17 seconds on Sunday.

[turbof1]

Whether the chassis is cracked or not has nothing to do with actual additional malfunctions in the previous races. If the chassis ends up not being cracked, his car was still malfunctioning in half the races.

It's not solely other non-structural malfunctions though. If that was the case and Vettel was constantly plagued by some or other car issue we wouldn't even be discussing the chassis now. Clearly Ricciardo has the upperhand, even when Vettel doesn't have any clear car issues.

It's either a lack of confidence, or a structural issue to the car.

You keep repeating this, but you're not substantiating it. Considering Vettel was ahead in roughly 2/3rds of all the laps both drivers were without issue, there is nothing clear about it, so would you please elaborate.

Well neither are you substantiating it; there's a vague mention of other issues, but nothing specific. As far I'm concerned res bull has issues with software running the electronics, but those could just as well have hitted Ricciardo. I believe, correct me if wrong, they never issued clear statements.

Being the most laps ahead is not relevant; there are no points for that and Ricciardo still was in front at the end of the race. In China both were in the same window during the second stint, with ricciardo being both faster and less weared off tyres. Later on this was boiled down to setup, but not on actual car malfunctions. And usually set up is mostly the same on both sides of the garage, with minor differences inbetween. Same for Bahrain btw. Vettel complained about something not working, but I think, again correct me if it isn't true, the team told him everything looked good. Ricciardo clearly had the upperhand after the safety car restart. I'm omitting Malaysia and Membourne here since either one of them didn't finish.

I'm not bashing vettel btw, neither actually drawing conclusions whether it's a driver or car related problem. But I'm keeping both probabilities open. However, I'm not buying the "he constantly has all kinds of different car issues", since he's struggling without it being clear what the issue is. So again either the chassis has issues or Vettel isn't comfortable or confident enough at the moment. It's a question even red bull can't answer right with full confidence. Helmut Marko clearly said they suspect a problem, which tells me 2 things: they haven't succeeded yet in finding cracks in the chassis and hair cracks are very difficult to find, even with sonic waves. They obviously have telemetry data on the handling of the car showing a pattern that resembles issues with the chassis, but until either a crack is actually found or vettel shows a clear improvement with the car in Barcelona, I'm leaving that open.

[mnmracer]

However, I'm not buying the "he constantly has all kinds of different car issues", since he's struggling without it being clear what the issue is.

What is there to buy? How is it not clear what the issue is?
Australia qualifying & race: power train
Bahrain qualifying: gearbox
Bahrain race: MGU-K harvesting

Nothing unclear about that. All well reported.
The fact you seem intent on ignoring that, is questionable.

Vettel complained about something not working, but I think, again correct me if it isn't true, the team told him everything looked good.

Corrected: it isn't true.
How do you even come up with that?

[NathanOlder]

Is it making excuses to say that Hamilton had mechanical issues in Australia and Rosberg beat him on the score board? Is it making excuses to say that Alonso had mechanical issues in Bahrain qualifying and Räikkönen beat him on the score board?
I'm just stating facts.

And no one is arguing that Daniel was faster than Sebastian in China.

No one is saying anything about excuses , Its plain simple facts, So far we have had 20 sessions.

Ham 12 7 Ros. (1 session neither driver set a time)
Ric 13 7 Vet
Alo 15 5 Rai

And like someone said, Vettel has said that Ricciardo is out performing him

Practice sessions are a completely useless measure. Unless you believe for instance the fact that Rosberg was faster in 2 out of 3 practice sessions in Malaysia is in anyway an accurate measure considering Hamilton beat him by 17 seconds on Sunday.

fair enough, I was just going on all sessions. In that case

Ham 6.2 Ros
Ric 6.2 Vet
Alo 7.1 Rai

[mnmracer]

No one is saying anything about excuses , Its plain simple facts, So far we have had 20 sessions.

Ham 12 7 Ros. (1 session neither driver set a time)
Ric 13 7 Vet
Alo 15 5 Rai

And like someone said, Vettel has said that Ricciardo is out performing him

Practice sessions are a completely useless measure. Unless you believe for instance the fact that Rosberg was faster in 2 out of 3 practice sessions in Malaysia is in anyway an accurate measure considering Hamilton beat him by 17 seconds on Sunday.

fair enough, I was just going on all sessions. In that case

Ham 6.2 Ros
Ric 6.2 Vet
Alo 7.1 Rai

Was it Hamilton's fault that Rosberg beat him when his engine failed in the race in Australia?
Was it Alonso's fault that Räikkönen beat him when his engine failed in Bahrain?

By that reckoning, Damon Hill was performing as well as Senna in early 1994. Because hey, session-wise it was 2:2, right?

[beelsebob]

However, I'm not buying the "he constantly has all kinds of different car issues", since he's struggling without it being clear what the issue is.

What is there to buy? How is it not clear what the issue is?
Australia qualifying & race: power train
Bahrain qualifying: gearbox
Bahrain race: MGU-K harvesting

It's not clear because no one has ever confirmed that there actually were issues with the gearbox or MGU-K. These items were not replaced, or repaired, and yet the problems went away. Instead, it is fairly clear to the rest of us that Vettel was just struggling with the feel of these items, and Ricciardo was handling it better (as the man himself has told us).

[mnmracer]

However, I'm not buying the "he constantly has all kinds of different car issues", since he's struggling without it being clear what the issue is.

What is there to buy? How is it not clear what the issue is?
Australia qualifying & race: power train
Bahrain qualifying: gearbox
Bahrain race: MGU-K harvesting

It's not clear because no one has ever confirmed that there actually were issues with the gearbox or MGU-K. These items were not replaced, or repaired, and yet the problems went away. Instead, it is fairly clear to the rest of us that Vettel was just struggling with the feel of these items, and Ricciardo was handling it better (as the man himself has told us).

Aside from Ted Kravitz.

[beelsebob]

Aside from Ted Kravitz.

When did he confirm that, and who was his source? If he didn't tell you who at RedBull confirmed these issues then he's no better a source than you simply saying "I confirmed it".

[mnmracer]

Aside from Ted Kravitz.

When did he confirm that, and who was his source? If he didn't tell you who at RedBull confirmed these issues then he's no better a source than you simply saying "I confirmed it".

I hope you don't really expect anyone to take your word over that of a Formula One driver and a 17 year F1 journalist.

[turbof1]

Let's assume for a moment it is true; still doesn't explain the difference between pace and tyre wear in China.

It's probably said in his notebook; I'll get back to you about that. Ted usually is reliable, but I have to see from who he got it, and if it's confirmed or suspected.

[beelsebob]

Aside from Ted Kravitz.

When did he confirm that, and who was his source? If he didn't tell you who at RedBull confirmed these issues then he's no better a source than you simply saying "I confirmed it".

I don't. But I do expect people to take the word of a Formula 1 driver with direct experience of the problem, over the word of a guy who hasn't cited any sources at all. The Formula 1 driver directly involved in the situation says "He's beating me fair and square", why is that so hard?

[mnmracer]

Do you have any factual data to support your premise, or is your entire premise based on the assumption that people in the paddock are lying?

[mnmracer]

Aside from Ted Kravitz.

When did he confirm that, and who was his source? If he didn't tell you who at RedBull confirmed these issues then he's no better a source than you simply saying "I confirmed it".

I don't. But I do expect people to take the word of a Formula 1 driver with direct experience of the problem, over the word of a guy who hasn't cited any sources at all. The Formula 1 driver directly involved in the situation says "He's beating me fair and square", why is that so hard?

Again, no one is arguing that Ricciardo had a better race in China.

[turbof1]

Do you have any factual data to support your premise, or is your entire premise based on the assumption that people in the paddock are lying?

Vettel said Ricciardo was beating him fair and square. I'll look for the article. Btw you quoted the wrong person in the post above.