2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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ME4ME
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Regarding the Renault powered cars being quick:

Let's disregard Verstappens top speed, the other 3 cars look good but:

-Mercedes tend to run heavy fuel loads on friday's
-Mercedes tend to turn the power down on friday's
-Mercedes could run an old well-used PU this friday (the Renault units are more currect cause the old one's blew up)
-Toro Rosso run ultra skinny rear and front wings (as shown in pictures)
-Both Toro Rosso's are obviously struggeling for grip, obvious to any observant viewer (FP2)
-Tire degradation could be worse as a result of exessive sliding, which won't be noticable over one lap, but would be over a stint.

But..
-Total delivered a new fuel at Hungary, which might help a tiny bit

So, we must wait for qualifying to see any real data instead of teams potentially sandbagging and screwing up any comparison. But as it is, it's very unlikely Renault have made any steps forward. Not without upgrades. They have said themselves there won't be any before Russia at the earliest. Software upgrades won't fix the massive deficit they've had.

mclaren_mircea
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Does someone know if the gearbox that Nico used in FP2 is the one that he will use for qualy and race, because if it that the case he will be in trouble, the explosion of the tyre and the crash destroyed the rear of the sidepod? In other cases, when that part of the car is destroyed, almost sure the gearbox is destroyed too. I hope that for Friday Nico used an old gearbox, not the good one.

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Blackout
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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ME4ME wrote:Regarding the Renault powered cars being quick:
Again, they became relatively quick on the straits in Austria not in Spa. I assume the 'new' engine has a bit more power and/or can be pushed harder thanks to new pistons etc (+ the small software and fuel improvements made in Monaco and Hungary)
RBR and STR are running 'light' rear wings since the beginning of the season AFAIK.
RBR too allways run heavy/with full tanks in FP2 during the sims.
Isnt the new Renault PU only one GP older than the Merc and Ferrari?
Yes as allways, the Merc teams will unleash more horsepower saturday.

dr.chaos
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Jordan44
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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FP2 "long-run" averages:

Hamilton 54.731 (4 laps)
Vettel (2) 54.747 (2 laps)
Grosjean 55.071 (1 lap)
Rosberg 55.238 (5 laps)
Kvyat 55.376 (2 laps)
Ricciardo 55.444 (1 lap)
Sainz 55.517 (4 laps)
Verstappen (2) 55.575 (2 laps)
Bottas 55.700 (4 laps)
Perez 55.819 (2 laps)
Raikkonen (1) 55.958 (2 laps)
Hulkenberg (1) 55.988 (1 lap)
Hulkenberg (2) 56.081 (2 laps)
Vettel (1) 56.153 (2 laps)
Massa 56.180 (2 laps)
Raikkonen (2) 56.199 (2 laps)
Verstappen (1) 56.294 (3 laps)
Maldonado 57.141 (2 laps)
Nasr (2) 57.343 (2 laps)
Button 58.003 (2 laps)
Nasr (1) 58.334 (4 laps)
Ericsson 58.755 (1 lap)

Wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the drivers have opted for race-oriented setups if they're anticipating poor starts and more overtaking, Lewis certainly looked better on the long-runs than he did in qualifying trim, but who knows if Nico had a problem with those tyres or not.
Last edited by Jordan44 on 21 Aug 2015, 16:43, edited 2 times in total.

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ME4ME
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Blackout wrote:Isnt the new Renault PU only one GP older than the Merc and Ferrari?
For all we know Mercedes could be running their Australia engines with ridiculous milage on them. Renault can't do that because of the aforementioned reason.

But yes, let's wait for qualifying before going through the exact data.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Might someone explain the new start rules? I´d like to know the exact changes, I know now drivers will not receive any input from the team once in the car but, that´s all? No mechanical changes?

BanMeToo
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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That's all. It's nothing more than a radio restriction. No mechanical changes. After a driver takes off during the formation lap he'll have to use the data/tools on his steering wheel to set the clutch bite point for the race start.

I find it silly tbh and think that our radio restrictions are in a good place. Rather, they were in a good place before this new rule.
Last edited by BanMeToo on 21 Aug 2015, 19:02, edited 2 times in total.

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bdr529
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Just_a_fan wrote:On the on board footage it looked like the inside shoulder coloured up as it came out of the corner. Looks like it suddenly blistered or picked up some debris.

Edit: Further footage shows failure started half a lap earlier!
I was in the other room and didn't see the replay but I could hear McNish saying it started earlier,
Any idea how far back in the lap the trouble started ?

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Top of Raidillon, maybe earlier than that.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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ME4ME
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Andres125sx wrote:Might someone explain the new start rules? I´d like to know the exact changes, I know now drivers will not receive any input from the team once in the car but, that´s all? No mechanical changes?
From today's press conference, article is on F1.com
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR

Q: (Mike Doodson - Grand Prix Week) I’ve been very puzzled by the clutch stories we’ve been told. We haven’t been given a lot of information about what the procedure was and I wondered, now that it’s no longer what it was, whether one of you could explain to an ignorant journalist exactly how these clutch procedures worked. I understand there are two clutches, you give advice to the driver over the radio, you’re not allowed to do that anymore. Could I ask for a volunteer from the front row to go through the procedure just for me?

JA: The overall procedure is fairly long and tedious so I will try and shortcut it a bit. When you go with the car from stop to going, there’s a certain amount of grip available on the track. The tyre has a certain amount of grip, the track has a certain amount of grip, you want to go as close to that available grip as possible but not over it and you don’t want to go under it otherwise you’re not making as much performance as there is available. Now if you were super duper skilful you might have fingers that could judge exactly where that grip is but it all happens very, very fast so a perfect start is one where you can just let go of the clutch, let go of it and it closes to the perfect point where it delivers exactly the right amount of torque, such that the tyre doesn’t light up and spin, but neither does it give less torque to the road than the road is capable of taking. So our job, during the weekend, is to try to judge exactly how much grip is available and to adjust our clutches so that when the driver says go, the clutch closes the perfect amount to deliver the perfect amount of torque to the road and then off it goes. And that’s something that happens without the driver adjusting stuff, he doesn’t fiddle around with his fingers. The way that we used to do that in the past was there’s two clutch paddles, one which he holds all the way in, keeping the clutch fully open and the other which he holds in a partially closed and open position. We then, as engineers, adjust the clutch so that this partially closed and open position is at exactly the right point to get this magic start. And then when the light goes green, he lets go of the first clutch and the clutch closes to the point that is being held by the second paddle. Off the car goes.
All that’s changed is that now we‘re not allowed to advise or make any adjustments to that biting point between when the car’s on the grid preparing for the start of the race and when the driver actually does it so the parade lap start and the real start is done all by the driver and if he thinks it’s not closed enough or too open, he has to make his own judgement about that and make the calls. We can be sitting in the garage going ‘no, don’t do that’ but we don’t have any power to stop him.

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bdr529
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Just_a_fan wrote:Top of Raidillon, maybe earlier than that.
Yikes !!
that's a long way to go on a bad tire, he's luck that didn't let go at Pouhon
Thanks for the info Just_a_fan

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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BanMeToo wrote:That's all. It's nothing more than a radio restriction. No mechanical changes. After a driver takes off during the formation lap he'll have to use the data/tools on his steering wheel to set the clutch bite point for the race start.

I find it silly tbh and think that our radio restrictions are in a good place. Rather, they were in a good place before this new rule.
ME4ME wrote: From today's press conference, article is on F1.com
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR

Q: (Mike Doodson - Grand Prix Week) I’ve been very puzzled by the clutch stories we’ve been told. We haven’t been given a lot of information about what the procedure was and I wondered, now that it’s no longer what it was, whether one of you could explain to an ignorant journalist exactly how these clutch procedures worked. I understand there are two clutches, you give advice to the driver over the radio, you’re not allowed to do that anymore. Could I ask for a volunteer from the front row to go through the procedure just for me?

JA: The overall procedure is fairly long and tedious so I will try and shortcut it a bit. When you go with the car from stop to going, there’s a certain amount of grip available on the track. The tyre has a certain amount of grip, the track has a certain amount of grip, you want to go as close to that available grip as possible but not over it and you don’t want to go under it otherwise you’re not making as much performance as there is available. Now if you were super duper skilful you might have fingers that could judge exactly where that grip is but it all happens very, very fast so a perfect start is one where you can just let go of the clutch, let go of it and it closes to the perfect point where it delivers exactly the right amount of torque, such that the tyre doesn’t light up and spin, but neither does it give less torque to the road than the road is capable of taking. So our job, during the weekend, is to try to judge exactly how much grip is available and to adjust our clutches so that when the driver says go, the clutch closes the perfect amount to deliver the perfect amount of torque to the road and then off it goes. And that’s something that happens without the driver adjusting stuff, he doesn’t fiddle around with his fingers. The way that we used to do that in the past was there’s two clutch paddles, one which he holds all the way in, keeping the clutch fully open and the other which he holds in a partially closed and open position. We then, as engineers, adjust the clutch so that this partially closed and open position is at exactly the right point to get this magic start. And then when the light goes green, he lets go of the first clutch and the clutch closes to the point that is being held by the second paddle. Off the car goes.
All that’s changed is that now we‘re not allowed to advise or make any adjustments to that biting point between when the car’s on the grid preparing for the start of the race and when the driver actually does it so the parade lap start and the real start is done all by the driver and if he thinks it’s not closed enough or too open, he has to make his own judgement about that and make the calls. We can be sitting in the garage going ‘no, don’t do that’ but we don’t have any power to stop him.
Thanks :)

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turbof1
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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I removed the bickering from a couple of pages back. Please stay respectful towards eachother people. Disagreeing can be perfectly done without getting into a handbag fight.
#AeroFrodo

Nathanael F1
Nathanael F1
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Re: 2015 Belgian Grand Prix - 21-23 August

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Does anyone have a list of the PU components used by each driver so far?
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg