Williams FW41 Mercedes

[mkay]

Very bad news for Williams fans, Gary Anderson has declared car to be good.

The day you can tell how a chassis will perform from what it looks like is the day I'll stop posting. Mercedes chassis was declared light years ahead last year when unveiled, but the simple looking Redbull was by far the better chassis in the end.

Not so sure about that. Where was Red Bull in Brazil or Abu Dhabi, or even in the USA? Granted, RBR did well in Mexico, Singapore, and Suzuka...

[Danlizzyman]

Very bad news for Williams fans, Gary Anderson has declared car to be good.

The day you can tell how a chassis will perform from what it looks like is the day I'll stop posting. Mercedes chassis was declared light years ahead last year when unveiled, but the simple looking Redbull was by far the better chassis in the end.

Isn't that what happens on this forum all the time?? In this very thread it has been mentioned that the new Williams isn't as "slippery" and will have more downforce than previous modern Williams cars, with that all suggested from just a handful of launch pictures

[Manoah2u]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWGmatlX0AEWlIn.jpg

lol, people complained how the 2008 cars looked like a mess of wings and stuff,
this looks absolutely worse as a mess of wings, even if it's functional and well-engineered.

it's going to be only a matter of time before stuff like this gets banned (again).

I like this area a lot. Kinda black magic. Visually interesting and mysterious.
Too bad a part of it will already capped next year.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13398 ... s-for-2019

Personally, i am in between. I do like the engineering, the professionalism behind it and indeed the 'spaceship' look.
Yet at the same time, it looks really busy, cluttered, messy (not negative). I think it's not much different to the razorblades at the t-wing/sharkfins. All that misses really is a t-wing, sharkfin, and the 1996 Ferrari extended fins/wings from the sidepods to the rear wing end plates, and the 2008 style nose to wing winglets.

[michl420]

Am I right when I say that the lower upper side-crash-structure is primary there for lower CoG than for aerodynamik reasons? Because I don't see another benefit.

[ScrewCaptain27]

Am I right when I say that the lower upper side-crash-structure is primary there for lower CoG than for aerodynamik reasons? Because I don't see another benefit.

It allows for more freedom in designing the shape of the sidepod inlet maybe

[Vanja #66]

Obviously Ferrari's Sidepod covering flow conditioners seems to be mainstream solution although it is important to remember that both Toro-Rosso and Mercedes raised their upper front wishbone to counteract the same problem(But it also required changing the suspension geometry for stability) so it will be interesting to see how many more teams employ Ferrari's solution to the larger front Tyre wake or will there be teams employing Toro-Rosso's version.

What's this about sidepods being a front tyre wake solution? Could you explain this?

Also the deflectors like the Ferrari focus on moving the air around the Sidepods (Unlike Haas's version which almost solely focuses on pushing the air above the Sidepods and relying on creating a "curtain" of vortices to minimise the effect of front tyre wake downstream while the large plate-like deflectors in the Williams acts like the "Curtain" by itself. It's also why the Haas has a blown axle while the Williams doesn't need it(At least until the more downforce heavy circuits like Barcelona where Drag does not matter that much)*.

I am very curious about these "vortex curtains". What do you mean by this? For the record, Ferrari had (and probably will have this year as well) blown axles last year, this doesn't seem to be correlated with deflector design.

The 2017 Diffuser in the Ferrari was probably the most flawed concept as they tried to make a low Drag diffuser to produce more downforce which added more drag unfortunately which did work at low speed circuits but affected it's High speed cornering (Not Medium speed, high speed like Silverstone, the car was fast in Malaysia)

Are you sure we are ready to point fingers at one part of the aero package and calling it "the most flawed concept"?

Moreover, I’m intrigued to see how far Ferrari take it, a year on in its evolution; it’s one thing coming to a solution new but another to have a year’s worth of experience and data. Like with other things of this nature (ebd, for example) you imagine the initial innovator has the opportunity to always be one step ahead in the development.

Always was, and always will be like that.

[Raleigh]

Very bad news for Williams fans, Gary Anderson has declared car to be good.

The day you can tell how a chassis will perform from what it looks like is the day I'll stop posting. Mercedes chassis was declared light years ahead last year when unveiled, but the simple looking Redbull was by far the better chassis in the end.

Isn't that what happens on this forum all the time?? In this very thread it has been mentioned that the new Williams isn't as "slippery" and will have more downforce than previous modern Williams cars, with that all suggested from just a handful of launch pictures

If you've been following Williams development for a few years you'll have a reasonable idea of what the team has been doing and why for their low drag philosophy, Williams really had some quite unique design approaches spanning from the FW36 to the FW40.

And that's all gone, replaced by what can be best described as a hybrid of Mercedes and Ferrari aero concepts.

I can't tell you if this car is going to be good or not, but the FW41 is certainly not following the same approach as Williams cars from the last 4 years.

[Zynerji]

Dark Horse: 2018

Ferrari level Aero (deBeers), Mercedes factory level integration of PU (Lowe), Year-long development budget (Stroll/Sirotkin).

IF their drivers can extract max potential, this could be the surprise winner of the year.

[mmred]

Dark Horse: 2018

Ferrari level Aero (deBeers), Mercedes factory level integration of PU (Lowe).

IF their drivers can extract max potential, this could be the surprise winner of the year.

ok i trust you /s

[ME4ME]

Dark Horse: 2018

Ferrari level Aero (deBeers), Mercedes factory level integration of PU (Lowe).

IF their drivers can extract max potential, this could be the surprise winner of the year.

There is no such thing as factory-level integration for a costumer team if the supplier has its own team. Mercedes can and will adapt their chassis to the PU and PU to chassis. Williams, even with Lowe's knowledge with regards to Mercedes' PU, will only build around the module they get delivered to them that is the PU.

As for the drivers .. I think it's pretty optimistic to hope that they will extract the true maximum. You cannot realistically expect that of a rookie and a 2nd-year mediocre driver.

[Zynerji]

Dark Horse: 2018

Ferrari level Aero (deBeers), Mercedes factory level integration of PU (Lowe).

IF their drivers can extract max potential, this could be the surprise winner of the year.

There is no such thing as factory-level integration for a costumer team if the supplier has its own team. Mercedes can and will adapt their chassis to the PU and PU to chassis. Williams, even with Lowe's knowledge with regards to Mercedes' PU, will only build around the module they get delivered to them that is the PU.

As for the drivers .. I think it's pretty optimistic to hope that they will extract the true maximum. You cannot realistically expect that of a rookie and a 2nd-year mediocre driver.

I said IF about the drivers, and I would think that if anyone understood the integration procedures that Mercedes have in mind while designing the chassis around the PU, that Lowe would know these things going into the design phase of the FW41. He said in an interview that a ton of "packaging" changes were made on this car. That makes me think that the Williams is packaged under the skin very similar to the Merc.

The proof is Qualifying in Australia in a few weeks. But, so far, the convergence at Williams seems to be the highest potential for a Dark Horse this season.

[ME4ME]

I said IF about the drivers, and I would think that if anyone understood the integration procedures that Mercedes have in mind while designing the chassis around the PU, that Lowe would know these things going into the design phase of the FW41. He said in an interview that a ton of "packaging" changes were made on this car. That makes me think that the Williams is packaged under the skin very similar to the Merc.

The proof is Qualifying in Australia in a few weeks. But, so far, the convergence at Williams seems to be the highest potential for a Dark Horse this season.

I'm sure that with Paddy Lowe, Williams will make strides to improve packaging. The point I tried to put forward is that Williams will never have "factory level integration" because they buy a complete unit and that's it. They will build their car around it. Mercedes on the other hand has the ability to adapt, alter and optimize the PU in combination with the chassis to create what ultimately is the best compromise.

[Blackout]

[scuderiafan]

It could be a camera angle trick, but the sidepods begin much farther back than last years Ferrari. The Haas and now Williams make me wonder what changes Ferrari will have made to their "wingpods" and who else has them.

[Zynerji]

I said IF about the drivers, and I would think that if anyone understood the integration procedures that Mercedes have in mind while designing the chassis around the PU, that Lowe would know these things going into the design phase of the FW41. He said in an interview that a ton of "packaging" changes were made on this car. That makes me think that the Williams is packaged under the skin very similar to the Merc.

The proof is Qualifying in Australia in a few weeks. But, so far, the convergence at Williams seems to be the highest potential for a Dark Horse this season.

I'm sure that with Paddy Lowe, Williams will make strides to improve packaging. The point I tried to put forward is that Williams will never have "factory level integration" because they buy a complete unit and that's it. They will build their car around it. Mercedes on the other hand has the ability to adapt, alter and optimize the PU in combination with the chassis to create what ultimately is the best compromise.

That's where I disagree.

With the reliability that is now expected from these PU's, I truly believe that the design/shape/situation of the PU is 100% based upon reliability, and the chassis is designed around it. I feel that weight distribution, mass-centroid axis, CoG, and transitional torsion to be the most important things when integrating the chassis to the engine. Paddy knows the way Merc handles these items, and I would expect that they are FULLY built into the FW41.