Why Verstappen will NOT win in 2020

[TAG]

I believe he won't win one until he loses one. He's simply not programed that way.

[raymondu999]

You said that Hamilton was similar to Verstappen with the swashbuckler type dna

Correct.

that is not true at all, and my evidence was the 9 straight podiums that Hamilton started his F1 career off with

Swashbuckler does not equal delinquent who does not finish races. Hence you misunderstood my point. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. I would suggest looking up swashbuckler if you think a swashbuckling F1 driver cannot have 9 straight podiums

[langedweil]

Can you show me a proof of your 40+ hp claim or is it just your wish?

Silly whataboutism .. it's only just the number that was used by the whole world in literally every article, post or discussion concerning the fuel flow engine directive back in November (actually, most used guestimate was around 50bhp, so I've even been mild).

Look, Lec is an absolute talent, no doubt about that. But using the phrase 'dirty tactics' against one guy whilst appraising the other guy with an illegal PU, feels somewhat .. shortsighted.
That's all fine with me, just whataboutism-ing your way out of an argument isn't very sexy.

I don't care about the discussion Leclerc vs. Verstappen. I've not commented on that as you may have noticed. My intention was not to defend Leclerc's performance against Verstappen by talking about potentially lost horsepower figures.

I only asked where that number of 40+ or 50+ comes from. "Whole world" talking about it does not make it more true. If one claims something and put it in an article, all others copy it. That's how media works.

Thanx for the insight ..
But for instance Toto was quoted on Autosport ( https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/1471 ... ched-50bhp). There were more teams though, and they have access to the gps data and are very well be able to acknowledge the meaning of that very same data ...

Anyway, enough dick-contesting ...

[LM10]

Silly whataboutism .. it's only just the number that was used by the whole world in literally every article, post or discussion concerning the fuel flow engine directive back in November (actually, most used guestimate was around 50bhp, so I've even been mild).

Look, Lec is an absolute talent, no doubt about that. But using the phrase 'dirty tactics' against one guy whilst appraising the other guy with an illegal PU, feels somewhat .. shortsighted.
That's all fine with me, just whataboutism-ing your way out of an argument isn't very sexy.

I don't care about the discussion Leclerc vs. Verstappen. I've not commented on that as you may have noticed. My intention was not to defend Leclerc's performance against Verstappen by talking about potentially lost horsepower figures.

I only asked where that number of 40+ or 50+ comes from. "Whole world" talking about it does not make it more true. If one claims something and put it in an article, all others copy it. That's how media works.

Thanx for the insight ..
But for instance Toto was quoted on Autosport ( https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/1471 ... ched-50bhp). There were more teams though, and they have access to the gps data and are very well be able to acknowledge the meaning of that very same data ...

Anyway, enough dick-contesting ...

So Ferrari having had power advantage of up to 50 bhp means that they must have lost all of that because there is no chance they legally have more power than Mercedes?

[langedweil]

So Ferrari having had power advantage of up to 50 bhp means that they must have lost all of that because there is no chance they legally have more power than Mercedes?

They could have, they could have ..
But after the directive, they didn't did they ?

[Jolle]

I believe he won't win one until he loses one. He's simply not programed that way.

Like he did with winning his first GP

It looks like this kid isn’t moved by any type of pressure, also seen as pigheaded.

[raymondu999]

In a race situation... the odds in Barcelona 2016 were either dnf or win. It’s not like he had a serious challenger after the 2 stop turned out to be the superior strategy

[Just_a_fan]

I believe he won't win one until he loses one. He's simply not programed that way.

Like he did with winning his first GP

It looks like this kid isn’t moved by any type of pressure, also seen as pigheaded.

They're all pig headed. Comes with being a racing driver.

There's a big difference between winning your first race and your first championship. In the race, there's just you and your engineer. You're both just concentrating on the race. In a title fight, there is huge media attention, interviews - "how are you handling the pressure? What will you feel like if you do/don't win?" and all that tripe. That can play on the mind over time.

Having said that, I think Max has been groomed from day 1 in a kart to be a winner. His dad has spent many years giving him a certain attitude - the same attitude that makes him think that any action he does on track is ok - moving under braking etc. - even when everyone else is saying otherwise. I think he'll be a tough cookie if/when he's fighting for titles.

[TAG]

I believe he won't win one until he loses one. He's simply not programed that way.

Like he did with winning his first GP

It looks like this kid isn’t moved by any type of pressure, also seen as pigheaded.

They're all pig headed. Comes with being a racing driver.

There's a big difference between winning your first race and your first championship. In the race, there's just you and your engineer. You're both just concentrating on the race. In a title fight, there is huge media attention, interviews - "how are you handling the pressure? What will you feel like if you do/don't win?" and all that tripe. That can play on the mind over time.

Having said that, I think Max has been groomed from day 1 in a kart to be a winner. His dad has spent many years giving him a certain attitude - the same attitude that makes him think that any action he does on track is ok - moving under braking etc. - even when everyone else is saying otherwise. I think he'll be a tough cookie if/when he's fighting for titles.

Well said. It's difficult to comprehend criticism for some. I think Max is a phenomenal talent, but as I said, he's not been humbled by an honest to goodness championship loss. That changes someone's perspective.

IMO there's a lot more Vettel (from racing perspective) than Hamilton in Max's POV on things given the commentary on most of his incidents.

[Jolle]

Like he did with winning his first GP

It looks like this kid isn’t moved by any type of pressure, also seen as pigheaded.

They're all pig headed. Comes with being a racing driver.

There's a big difference between winning your first race and your first championship. In the race, there's just you and your engineer. You're both just concentrating on the race. In a title fight, there is huge media attention, interviews - "how are you handling the pressure? What will you feel like if you do/don't win?" and all that tripe. That can play on the mind over time.

Having said that, I think Max has been groomed from day 1 in a kart to be a winner. His dad has spent many years giving him a certain attitude - the same attitude that makes him think that any action he does on track is ok - moving under braking etc. - even when everyone else is saying otherwise. I think he'll be a tough cookie if/when he's fighting for titles.

Well said. It's difficult to comprehend criticism for some. I think Max is a phenomenal talent, but as I said, he's not been humbled by an honest to goodness championship loss. That changes someone's perspective.

IMO there's a lot more Vettel (from racing perspective) than Hamilton in Max's POV on things given the commentary on most of his incidents.

There is indeed a striking resemblance to Vettel in some of his "it's not my fault" answering after mistakes of incidents, but not all... Vettel is the most striking in blaming everybody but himself for his f-ups (at least in public) while Verstappen just shuts down the questioning with "I made a mistake" in some cases.

But.. if we look a bit broader, all but one F1 drives do this so it seems. If you look at all the incidents of Leclerc, Alonso, Schumacher, Senna, etc etc... "he just turned into me" is a very common phrase when they went for a gap that wasn't there to begin with. All of these drivers and all of the (multiple) world champions have a dirty side and many cases of on track collisions where they refused to take blame for or even instigated it.

My point is, that not Verstappen is the odd one out, but Hamilton is (at the moment). His reaction after his touch with Albon in Brazil last year is something we don't see very often, any other driver probably would have complained "he didn't give me enough space" etc etc.

"the Hamilton years" have given us a clean fighting champion, with a car that didn't need much fighting to begin with. Verstappen re-introduced the fighting on the edge of the stewards again, like Schumacher and before him, Senna did. Who both, by the way, took a championship the first moment they were in reach.

For the (big) champions that failed on their first real championship battle, "cracking under pressure" was not the reason. If we look at '84, 86, 91 or '07, it was mostly down to mechanical failures and in team battles. On the other hand, '97 and '10 (Schumacher and Alonso) could be accounted for a f-up (for Schumacher failing to battle clean with. Villeneuve and Alonso not being able to pass Petrov), both multiple world champions at the time! And both beaten by a new kid on the block taking his chance right away, with an attitude more or less like Verstappen.

In the end it's all down to the car, will it be capable of beating the Mercedes. Even though he fights with a knife between his teeth, his actual driving style is very safe. Plus he does have a team that is of full support of him with the right people to coach him (and no team mate to battle like Alonso or Prost).

[dans79]

In the end it's all down to the car, will it be capable of beating the Mercedes. Even though he fights with a knife between his teeth, his actual driving style is very safe. Plus he does have a team that is of full support of him with the right people to coach him (and no team mate to battle like Alonso or Prost).

Just watch how quickly that support disappears when he starts making mistakes in the heat of battle with a car capable of winning a championship, or if he gets teamed with a younger drivers that shows him up. For example when Ric made Vet look really bad in 2014.

[TAG]

In the end it's all down to the car, will it be capable of beating the Mercedes. Even though he fights with a knife between his teeth, his actual driving style is very safe. Plus he does have a team that is of full support of him with the right people to coach him (and no team mate to battle like Alonso or Prost).

We can all use a good F1 down to the wire battle. 2020 sure as hell needs something to kick its ass.

[Jolle]

In the end it's all down to the car, will it be capable of beating the Mercedes. Even though he fights with a knife between his teeth, his actual driving style is very safe. Plus he does have a team that is of full support of him with the right people to coach him (and no team mate to battle like Alonso or Prost).

Just watch how quickly that support disappears when he starts making mistakes in the heat of battle with a car capable of winning a championship, or if he gets teamed with a younger drivers that shows him up. For example when Ric made Vet look really bad in 2014.

or Vettel and Leclerc, what possible says more about Vettel....

[dans79]

or Vettel and Leclerc, what possible says more about Vettel....

You are giving leclerc far to much credit, he was just the guy in the other car when the end finally came. In my opinion 2017 and 2018 play a far bigger part in Vettel's departure.

[dans79]

And just to get back on topic, Unless the 2020 RBR is like like the 2013 RBR in that it can qualify on the front row and then just runaway and hide Max won't win in 2020.

China 2018, shows Maxes main flaws. He was in the right spot at the right time to win the race, but he ended up 5th because he is overzealous and in my personal opinion still hasn't grown out of the entitlement he was raised with.