Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

[TechF1]

The 2020 and 2021 Ferrari chassis have to be (much) better than the Renault, Mclaren or RP. Just compare Ferrari's chassis budget with RS or MCL...

About 2020 it was a matter of engine "grey" tricks banned, they lacked 50bhp during the whole season.
About 2021 if you could read the technical rules you could understand that they can just work on a single element, they choose rear suspensions.
Renault has same Ferrari limitations don't know where they will use tokens.
MCL due to the engine change will have pratically a new car/chassis.
RP will have 2020 Mercedes W11 rear suspension for free so they can use the two tokens elsewhere.
These are the rules, Ferrari from January 1st 2021 is 100% working on 2022 car.
It's not everything related to budget, and RP got W10 chassis for freee .

[godlameroso]

The 2020 and 2021 Ferrari chassis have to be (much) better than the Renault, Mclaren or RP. Just compare Ferrari's chassis budget with RS or MCL...

About 2020 it was a matter of engine "grey" tricks banned, they lacked 50bhp during the whole season.
About 2021 if you could read the technical rules you could understand that they can just work on a single element, they choose rear suspensions.
Renault has same Ferrari limitations don't know where they will use tokens.
MCL due to the engine change will have pratically a new car/chassis.
RP will have 2020 Mercedes W11 rear suspension for free so they can use the two tokens elsewhere.
These are the rules, Ferrari from January 1st 2021 is 100% working on 2022 car.
It's not everything related to budget, and RP got W10 chassis for freee .

They can still work on aero. The other two Ferrari powered teams will also get a nice engine boost, as well as a free 2021 Ferrari rear end. With the free tokens AR and Haas will have they will make a nice jump up the order as will Williams. I think 2021 will concertina the grid even further than before. It will make it very entertaining as the cars will take a bit more skill to drive but be just as fast as before. Shame because I feel these cars are very interesting with the bargeboards.

The future design loses that inverted bird shape these cars are starting to take.

[ryaan2904]

About the engine, I think that 30-40 hp boost isn't the most important thing Ferrari is getting. Like it'll definitely help at Monza, I wont deny, but I think the most important boost would be how long Ferrari would be able to sustain those peak or near peak power levels.
If you look back at 2019, the engine was already struggling in races after the fia investigation around the US gp. I think Ferrari engines are going to be much better in race mode this year.

[Blackout]

The 2020 and 2021 Ferrari chassis have to be (much) better than the Renault, Mclaren or RP. Just compare Ferrari's chassis budget with RS or MCL...

About 2020 it was a matter of engine "grey" tricks banned, they lacked 50bhp during the whole season.
About 2021 if you could read the technical rules you could understand that they can just work on a single element, they choose rear suspensions.
Renault has same Ferrari limitations don't know where they will use tokens.
MCL due to the engine change will have pratically a new car/chassis.
RP will have 2020 Mercedes W11 rear suspension for free so they can use the two tokens elsewhere.
These are the rules, Ferrari from January 1st 2021 is 100% working on 2022 car.
It's not everything related to budget, and RP got W10 chassis for freee .

I'm just talking about the chassis. If every car had the same power, Ferrari should be atleat 3rd and with some margine ahead of the Renault and MCL who spent around 50% less money and have around 30% less people on their chassis.
So if the 2021 Ferrari PU closes the power gap to the others they can and must fight for p3 IMO

[the EDGE]

The other two Ferrari powered teams will also get a nice engine boost, as well as a free 2021 Ferrari rear end. With the free tokens AR and Haas will have they will make a nice jump up the order as will Williams.

You misunderstanding the token system

Only teams running 2019 parts get a free upgrade, and then only to 2020 spec parts

Ferrari customers were already running 2020 parts so can only upgrade to ‘21 parts if a/ If Ferrari use their tokens to make a ‘21 part & b/ if the customer team uses their tokens to too

This ‘loop-hole’ was introduced to prevent supplier teams having to go back and re-manufacture 2 year old parts again, not as a free bonus for the customer teams

[the EDGE]

The 2020 and 2021 Ferrari chassis have to be (much) better than the Renault, Mclaren or RP. Just compare Ferrari's chassis budget with RS or MCL...

Why on earth would spending more money mean you ‘must’ have made a better chassis?

Ferraris chassis was flawed, it had an unstable rear end and over-used tyres, this is well documented

[Blackout]

The 2020 and 2021 Ferrari chassis have to be (much) better than the Renault, Mclaren or RP. Just compare Ferrari's chassis budget with RS or MCL...

Why on earth would spending more money mean you ‘must’ have made a better chassis?

Ferraris chassis was flawed, it had an unstable rear end and over-used tyres, this is well documented

It's not automatic for sure, you can spend 10 more money but do a sh** job and produce a worse chassis than your less wealthy competitor, but that rarely happens... The biggest spenders are the strongest. But Ferrari had a (much) better chassis than those other teams for many seasons until atleast 2019, and a nice qualy/race gap per lap.
And the main reason they fell back in 2020 is the big PU power loss.
Some of the competitors (like RS, MCL, RP) are reducing the gap, but if we gave all these teams the same power this year, would they catch Ferrari?

The Ferrari chassi was also built around a PU that was supposed to be very powerful like the 2019 one, and AFAIK, it was draggy because Ferrari wanted maximum DF at all costs... so when you take all that power, the chassis might suffer a lot, in many areas.

[TechF1]

The 2020 and 2021 Ferrari chassis have to be (much) better than the Renault, Mclaren or RP. Just compare Ferrari's chassis budget with RS or MCL...

About 2020 it was a matter of engine "grey" tricks banned, they lacked 50bhp during the whole season.
About 2021 if you could read the technical rules you could understand that they can just work on a single element, they choose rear suspensions.
Renault has same Ferrari limitations don't know where they will use tokens.
MCL due to the engine change will have pratically a new car/chassis.
RP will have 2020 Mercedes W11 rear suspension for free so they can use the two tokens elsewhere.
These are the rules, Ferrari from January 1st 2021 is 100% working on 2022 car.
It's not everything related to budget, and RP got W10 chassis for freee .

They can still work on aero. The other two Ferrari powered teams will also get a nice engine boost, as well as a free 2021 Ferrari rear end. With the free tokens AR and Haas will have they will make a nice jump up the order as will Williams. I think 2021 will concertina the grid even further than before. It will make it very entertaining as the cars will take a bit more skill to drive but be just as fast as before. Shame because I feel these cars are very interesting with the bargeboards.

The future design loses that inverted bird shape these cars are starting to take.

Sorry but AR and Hass can't get Ferrari's 2021 rear suspension without spending tokens.
Yes aero it's almost free but due to new regulations, i don't see any "upgrade" coming from this.
The only thing could change something it's if they increased PU usage and power more than Mercedes, Honda and Ren, but rumors from Italy are claiming just 30Bhp more than the 2020 PU so, i think more or less SF21 will perform like SF-1000, just probably more stable and thanks of Sainz they will gain more points at the end.
So they can aim for 4/5th place in the constructors championship, 3rd it's pratically impossible and Binotto yet did the same calculations.

[godlameroso]

The other two Ferrari powered teams will also get a nice engine boost, as well as a free 2021 Ferrari rear end. With the free tokens AR and Haas will have they will make a nice jump up the order as will Williams.

You misunderstanding the token system

Only teams running 2019 parts get a free upgrade, and then only to 2020 spec parts

Ferrari customers were already running 2020 parts so can only upgrade to ‘21 parts if a/ If Ferrari use their tokens to make a ‘21 part & b/ if the customer team uses their tokens to too

This ‘loop-hole’ was introduced to prevent supplier teams having to go back and re-manufacture 2 year old parts again, not as a free bonus for the customer teams

Do you honestly think that teams will take a 2020 Ferrari rear end vs a 2021 one if the engine and rear end are a package? Even if they're only limited to rear end modifications, that's still a nice jump over 2020. The biggest deficit for Ferrari is the fact they don't have a narrow nose and cape, so they have to be more clever to partition airflow the the diffuser and bargeboards.

[the EDGE]

The other two Ferrari powered teams will also get a nice engine boost, as well as a free 2021 Ferrari rear end. With the free tokens AR and Haas will have they will make a nice jump up the order as will Williams.

You misunderstanding the token system

Only teams running 2019 parts get a free upgrade, and then only to 2020 spec parts

Ferrari customers were already running 2020 parts so can only upgrade to ‘21 parts if a/ If Ferrari use their tokens to make a ‘21 part & b/ if the customer team uses their tokens to too

This ‘loop-hole’ was introduced to prevent supplier teams having to go back and re-manufacture 2 year old parts again, not as a free bonus for the customer teams

Do you honestly think that teams will take a 2020 Ferrari rear end vs a 2021 one if the engine and rear end are a package? Even if they're only limited to rear end modifications, that's still a nice jump over 2020. The biggest deficit for Ferrari is the fact they don't have a narrow nose and cape, so they have to be more clever to partition airflow the the diffuser and bargeboards.

No of course not, I’m just saying they will have to spend their tokens to do so

[TechF1]

The other two Ferrari powered teams will also get a nice engine boost, as well as a free 2021 Ferrari rear end. With the free tokens AR and Haas will have they will make a nice jump up the order as will Williams.

You misunderstanding the token system

Only teams running 2019 parts get a free upgrade, and then only to 2020 spec parts

Ferrari customers were already running 2020 parts so can only upgrade to ‘21 parts if a/ If Ferrari use their tokens to make a ‘21 part & b/ if the customer team uses their tokens to too

This ‘loop-hole’ was introduced to prevent supplier teams having to go back and re-manufacture 2 year old parts again, not as a free bonus for the customer teams

Do you honestly think that teams will take a 2020 Ferrari rear end vs a 2021 one if the engine and rear end are a package? Even if they're only limited to rear end modifications, that's still a nice jump over 2020. The biggest deficit for Ferrari is the fact they don't have a narrow nose and cape, so they have to be more clever to partition airflow the the diffuser and bargeboards.

The real biggest problem they had it's lack of PU power, everyone in F1 confirm they lacked about 50HP last year.
AT it's a RB clone for obvious reason and do not use narrow nose, copycatting others aero concept it's not the solution.

[godlameroso]

You misunderstanding the token system

Only teams running 2019 parts get a free upgrade, and then only to 2020 spec parts

Ferrari customers were already running 2020 parts so can only upgrade to ‘21 parts if a/ If Ferrari use their tokens to make a ‘21 part & b/ if the customer team uses their tokens to too

This ‘loop-hole’ was introduced to prevent supplier teams having to go back and re-manufacture 2 year old parts again, not as a free bonus for the customer teams

Do you honestly think that teams will take a 2020 Ferrari rear end vs a 2021 one if the engine and rear end are a package? Even if they're only limited to rear end modifications, that's still a nice jump over 2020. The biggest deficit for Ferrari is the fact they don't have a narrow nose and cape, so they have to be more clever to partition airflow the the diffuser and bargeboards.

The real biggest problem they had it's lack of PU power, everyone in F1 confirm they lacked about 50HP last year.
AT it's a RB clone for obvious reason and do not use narrow nose, copycatting others aero concept it's not the solution.

AT is spending its tokens to go narrow nose for next season, keeping the current transmission. If Ferrari lost 50hp between 2019 and 2020 they're regaining over half of that, this means they'll gain ground on Renault and Mercedes and slightly less on Honda because Honda is taking a big step.

[Schippke]

I think some others have mentioned this particular scenario I'm about to describe; My apologies in forgetting the forum user/s that have done so in the past, not taking credit for their opinions/theories.

In short, no doubt Ferraris suffered a lot last year with a power deficit... for whatever reason that we'll never truly know about. In doing so, because of the loss of power, they would've have to have setup the SF1000 in a way to somewhat compensate for that as well... so potentially overall lowering the downforce to have a chance at being competitive on the straights. This in turn has a snowball effect on everything else, having to adjust pretty much everything aerodynamically, mechanically and electronically etc.

If they weren't able to run the car in an optimal setup window, particularly aero wise, then the airflow going over and around the car is also effected... leading to issues with the likes of instability at the rear and what not.

So... for SF21... whilst there might have been some flawed issues on the SF1000, regardless of the lack of power, I think they're in with a good shot of clawing back a decent chunk of performance. They seem to know where the issues are on the car and have spent the tokens appropriately; The whole idea of a skinny nose that is going to fix everything I find to be a bit farfetched. Yes, it may bring an improvement but only if the rest of the car is optimised for it as well... and with the limited development scope the regulations allow for this year (and for getting prepared for 2022), it truly isn't worth the investment now.

Will Ferrari win races this year? I doubt it... maybe one with a bit of luck. But I would expect a few podiums (on merit and pace, not just unreliability of others and the lottery wet races). Keep in mind that a big chunk of the reason for Ferrari's poor score last year was down to Vettel's performances in comparison to Leclerc (not getting into the reasons why, that's all speculation for another thread)... so if Sainz can hit the ground running with the Scuderia, 3rd place is definitely on the cards by seasons end I believe.

[TechF1]

Do you honestly think that teams will take a 2020 Ferrari rear end vs a 2021 one if the engine and rear end are a package? Even if they're only limited to rear end modifications, that's still a nice jump over 2020. The biggest deficit for Ferrari is the fact they don't have a narrow nose and cape, so they have to be more clever to partition airflow the the diffuser and bargeboards.

The real biggest problem they had it's lack of PU power, everyone in F1 confirm they lacked about 50HP last year.
AT it's a RB clone for obvious reason and do not use narrow nose, copycatting others aero concept it's not the solution.

AT is spending its tokens to go narrow nose for next season, keeping the current transmission. If Ferrari lost 50hp between 2019 and 2020 they're regaining over half of that, this means they'll gain ground on Renault and Mercedes and slightly less on Honda because Honda is taking a big step.

So AT will follow RB concept? Why they did not bring it before the freeze in that area like MCL, it's weird they will use for sure the rb one, so. Anyway they could have used Rb 2020 rear supensions for free, but they choose to not use it. Thanks for the info.
About Ferrari engine, Ren, Honda and Mercedes are not wating for them, they will bring updated and more powerful PU as well, probably Ferrari will have better PU management than last year, but they cannot reach Honda or Mercedes, they could hope to reach Renault.
Anyway most of Ferrari efforts are on 2022 season, i think next season will be a copy of the past one for them.

[godlameroso]

The real biggest problem they had it's lack of PU power, everyone in F1 confirm they lacked about 50HP last year.
AT it's a RB clone for obvious reason and do not use narrow nose, copycatting others aero concept it's not the solution.

AT is spending its tokens to go narrow nose for next season, keeping the current transmission. If Ferrari lost 50hp between 2019 and 2020 they're regaining over half of that, this means they'll gain ground on Renault and Mercedes and slightly less on Honda because Honda is taking a big step.

So AT will follow RB concept? Why they did not bring it before the freeze in that area like MCL, it's weird they will use for sure the rb one, so. Anyway they could have used Rb 2020 rear supensions for free, but they choose to not use it. Thanks for the info.
About Ferrari engine, Ren, Honda and Mercedes are not wating for them, they will bring updated and more powerful PU as well, probably Ferrari will have better PU management than last year, but they cannot reach Honda or Mercedes, they could hope to reach Renault.
Anyway most of Ferrari efforts are on 2022 season, i think next season will be a copy of the past one for them.

They'll be closer, they did a lot of on track aero development, so that combined with the engine should at least put them in the fight for top of the Ferrari AM MCL Ren AT pack.