2023 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 31 - April 02

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Does anyone know what the top speed difference was between VER and PER? I'm curious since they were running different rear wings.

In the speed trap, only 1km/h. 324 for Max, 323 for Checo

[dialtone]

Not surprising really. Ferrari will run the engine in tractor mode any session all year.

[SirBastianVettel]

Does anyone know what the top speed difference was between VER and PER? I'm curious since they were running different rear wings.

In the speed trap, only 1km/h. 324 for Max, 323 for Checo

Interesting, I guess better corner exits for Perez with the higher downforce rear wing helped him reach similar top speeds. In that case I wonder what rear wing they'll choose for the rest of the weekend.

[dialtone]

Does anyone know what the top speed difference was between VER and PER? I'm curious since they were running different rear wings.

In the speed trap, only 1km/h. 324 for Max, 323 for Checo

Interesting, I guess better corner exits for Perez with the higher downforce rear wing helped him reach similar top speeds. In that case I wonder what rear wing they'll choose for the rest of the weekend.

Top speed is with DRS, the rear wing size matters very little if they both use the same mainplane.

[AR3-GP]

In the speed trap, only 1km/h. 324 for Max, 323 for Checo

Interesting, I guess better corner exits for Perez with the higher downforce rear wing helped him reach similar top speeds. In that case I wonder what rear wing they'll choose for the rest of the weekend.

Top speed is with DRS, the rear wing size matters very little if they both use the same mainplane.

Mainplane is not the same. The main plane is the main difference between Bahrain and Jeddah wings. Bahrain mainplane has more camber and a lower leading edge.

Also, looking at the speed trace on the best lap, Perez acceleration seems higher even when accounting for the added grip on corner exit. This is counterintuitive considering his bulkier mainplane and the new front wing.

There could be differences in fuel load. These were set on different laps.

[SirBastianVettel]

In the speed trap, only 1km/h. 324 for Max, 323 for Checo

Interesting, I guess better corner exits for Perez with the higher downforce rear wing helped him reach similar top speeds. In that case I wonder what rear wing they'll choose for the rest of the weekend.

Top speed is with DRS, the rear wing size matters very little if they both use the same mainplane.

Good point. My brain is definitely not working at full speed yet at these crazy early hours

[dialtone]

Interesting, I guess better corner exits for Perez with the higher downforce rear wing helped him reach similar top speeds. In that case I wonder what rear wing they'll choose for the rest of the weekend.

Top speed is with DRS, the rear wing size matters very little if they both use the same mainplane.

Mainplane is not the same. The main plane is the main difference between Bahrain and Jeddah wings. Bahrain mainplane has more camber and a lower leading edge.

Also, looking at the speed trace on the best lap, Perez acceleration seems higher even when accounting for the added grip on corner exit. This is counterintuitive considering his bulkier mainplane and the new front wing.

There could be differences in fuel load. These were set on different laps.

What added grip? PER was on Mediums and VER was on softs, about the same age, VER took just about every corner faster. The difference I've seen on the mainplane seems minimal at best, weight has very little impact in the straight past 300kph, weight is irrelevant even in bike time trial races where they typically use bikes that weight 2-3kg more than the climbing bikes, favoring instead aero efficiency. The aero difference between those 2 wings is zero, which, if the more loaded one generates more downforce, is pretty impressive in its own accord.

[organic]

I wouldn't say irrelevant in bike time trial races.. nowadays they often switch bikes at a certain stage if the profile makes it viable, but this is not f1 related

[AR3-GP]

Top speed is with DRS, the rear wing size matters very little if they both use the same mainplane.

Mainplane is not the same. The main plane is the main difference between Bahrain and Jeddah wings. Bahrain mainplane has more camber and a lower leading edge.

Also, looking at the speed trace on the best lap, Perez acceleration seems higher even when accounting for the added grip on corner exit. This is counterintuitive considering his bulkier mainplane and the new front wing.

There could be differences in fuel load. These were set on different laps.

What added grip? PER was on Mediums and VER was on softs, about the same age, VER took just about every corner faster. The difference I've seen on the mainplane seems minimal at best, weight has very little impact in the straight past 300kph, weight is irrelevant even in bike time trial races where they typically use bikes that weight 2-3kg more than the climbing bikes, favoring instead aero efficiency. The aero difference between those 2 wings is zero, which, if the more loaded one generates more downforce, is pretty impressive in its own accord.

edit: okay I see, different tire.

1) I said added grip because Perez has a higher load rear wing but note that I am also dismissing corner exit differences.

2) There are two different wings.




3) I would suggest that you review your speed traces from a race to look at how top speed evolves with fuel load.

[dialtone]

I wouldn't say irrelevant in bike time trial races.. nowadays they often switch bikes at a certain stage if the profile makes it viable, but this is not f1 related

Weight is utterly irrelevant on a flat time trial. They never change bikes in time trials no idea where you saw this happen, the stage is run at average speeds of 58+ kph, if you stopped to change bike in a time trial you'd lose instantly, the olympics time trial, aside from the winner, saw 2.6s between 2nd and 3rd, 0.4s between 3rd and 4th and 1.4s between 4th and 5th. And you would stop to change a bike? Nope. They cover their chains in wax because it improves efficiency of the drive train by 4W, use bigger pulley wheels in the rear mech because it improves efficiency of the drivetrain.

If you go to a climbing race you'll see bikes that can be as low as 5kg, but in a flat time trial bikes can reach 9-10kg, in fact triathlon bikes (like the DiamondBack Andean at 9kg) are generally in the 9-10kg range. Aero wheels are heavier than their non-aero counterpart and so on.

Anyway yeah it's a bit OT but weight is irrelevant to top speed.

[organic]

Oh i didn't realize you were implying a flat stage. Yeah completely agree. I was thinking about profiles that have lot of climbing

[dialtone]

Mainplane is not the same. The main plane is the main difference between Bahrain and Jeddah wings. Bahrain mainplane has more camber and a lower leading edge.

Also, looking at the speed trace on the best lap, Perez acceleration seems higher even when accounting for the added grip on corner exit. This is counterintuitive considering his bulkier mainplane and the new front wing.

There could be differences in fuel load. These were set on different laps.

What added grip? PER was on Mediums and VER was on softs, about the same age, VER took just about every corner faster. The difference I've seen on the mainplane seems minimal at best, weight has very little impact in the straight past 300kph, weight is irrelevant even in bike time trial races where they typically use bikes that weight 2-3kg more than the climbing bikes, favoring instead aero efficiency. The aero difference between those 2 wings is zero, which, if the more loaded one generates more downforce, is pretty impressive in its own accord.

edit: okay I see, different tire.

1) I said added grip because Perez has a higher load rear wing but note that I am also dismissing corner exit differences.

2) There are two different wings.




3) I would suggest that you review your speed traces from a race to look at how top speed evolves with fuel load.

Here you go:



VER v VER in Jeddah, 3rd lap (his 2nd slowest) and last lap (his fastest):
* Top speed on start line is identical (no drs)
* Top speed at T13 (~2000m) is 5kph off, the heavier car is accelerating faster than the lighter car, unfortunately the heavier car, due to being heavier is paying the much slower corner speed.
* Probably behind someone before T16 since VER gets DRS in his 3rd lap from that point on.
* With DRS active the car with 100kg more fuel is stupidly faster.

Weight is irrelevant for top speed compared to aero, especially in long straights like the back straight here in Australia or the main straight in Jeddah where the corner exit is recovered during the straight.

I rest my case.

[AR3-GP]

please delete.

[dialtone]

edit: okay I see, different tire.

1) I said added grip because Perez has a higher load rear wing but note that I am also dismissing corner exit differences.

2) There are two different wings.




3) I would suggest that you review your speed traces from a race to look at how top speed evolves with fuel load.

Here you go:

https://i.imgur.com/ZjZdAXI.jpeg

VER v VER in Jeddah, 3rd lap (his 2nd slowest) and last lap (his fastest):
* Top speed on start line is identical (no drs)
* Top speed at T13 (~2000m) is 5kph off, the heavier car is accelerating faster than the lighter car, unfortunately the heavier car, due to being heavier is paying the much slower corner speed.
* Probably behind someone before T16 since VER gets DRS in his 3rd lap from that point on.
* With DRS active the car with 100kg more fuel is stupidly faster.

Weight is irrelevant for top speed compared to aero, especially in long straights like the back straight here in Australia or the main straight in Jeddah where the corner exit is recovered during the straight.

I rest my case.

Verstappen has a double tow across the lineon lap 3. 4 tenths behind Magnussen, who was only 3 tenths behind Hulkenberg as they both crossed the line. The first laps created a big tow all around the circuit for following cars. Verstappen commented on how it made the rear unstable.

It would make more sense to do a comparison using Perez, who did not have use of DRS after he passed Alonso on lap 3 or 4.

Look what I have to do:
viewtopic.php?t=23671

[AR3-GP]

delete