Ferrari sued by Ford

[myurr]

And where did Ford sue? In those markets...

Don't forget that Ferrari will also be producing merchandising for the F150th which will be available in the US and Canada.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

As some people don't seem to grasp this, I'll post this link again: http://www.semplefraser.co.uk/a/FerrariLimo

This is an example of Ferrari suing a guy who turned his legitimately bought Ferrari into a limo in order to force him to remove all Ferrari branding. Sure sounds frivolous to me, but again the reason given is that if they don't then they lose legitimacy over their trademark should someone else come along and do something similar.

I think the trademark protection was an escape goat in that case. They didn't want their brand on a frankenstein that could harm the brand image. What would people think of Ferrari if they saw a horrible limo with their name on it carrying drunk celebrities and other types of junk? I certainly wouldn't spend hundreds of thousands of Dollars in a car were the manufacturer made hideous limos as well if I could.

The number 150 is a number, besides it represents the anniversary of Italy this year. I guess that's way more important than the truck and way unrelated to it. If Ferrari hadn't costumers in America I would support them not giving attention to it and not changing the name. As they have, I would have changed it to F1-150 or something similar and talked to Ford about it. Not that I would really be worried about the answer tough. It's a damn right to commemorate a country's birthday!

[feynman]

The number 150 is a number, besides it represents the anniversary of Italy this year. I guess that's way more important than the truck and way unrelated to it. If Ferrari hadn't costumers in America I would support them not giving attention to it and not changing the name.

What is this, this 'dog ate my homework'-style scrabbling for an excuse. Waving about some arbitrary anniversary and saying that allows you to choose to ignore and circumvent the law, I don't think so.

Ford has a registered trademark in the United States for Automative use of F-150, and trademarks for some associated goods, like F-150 t-shirts.

That is the beginning and pretty much the end of it right there ... if Ferrari want to use in their marketing and websites in the US references to a car called an F150, and try to flog hats and t-shirts, then they are out of luck. And rightly so.

Luca wrapping this car up in flags and anniversaries as part of his tawdry electioneering was cynical and embarrassing enough to watch at launch, without them pretending to act all dumb when Ford correctly pulled them up. It made Ferrari look like amateurs.

What if GM decided to launch a truck called the F-150, to commemerate the 150th anniversary of the US Civil War ... with your make-it-up as we go along, birthdays are more important than law, type of scheme, then you could have no objection to that. And then where do we end-up. No trademark of any kind would ever be enforcable, no protection for any companies valuable intellectual property.

You got it all wrong, companies > countries, and law > excuses.

[Pandamasque]

And where did Ford sue? In those markets...

Don't forget that Ferrari will also be producing merchandising for the F150th which will be available in the US and Canada.

I'm pretty sure there will be a Spark model of Sauber C30 sold in Europe. Why isn't Volvo suing Sauber?

[andartop]

I think there's a subtle difference between that "Ferrari limo" story and the "F150" story: in the first case Ferrari's image could potentially be damaged if someone was indeed silly enough to assume that vehicle was factory made, whereas in the second case Ford could only benefit from any association of one of its models with a F1 racecar.

Of course Ford had every right to do what they did, as unfortunately in this world we live in reason hardly ever has anything to do with legislation.

Whether they made more friends or enemies from this story though is another issue. Would be interesting to see whether Ford's sales in Italy next month might be affected!

I am old enough to understand there has to be some legislation protecting copyrights. But the bloody thing is not even a name Ford "invented", it's just a code. Ford might have used it for donkeys years and the same has Ferrari, both for racecars and commercially available models, Yamaha for boat motors and General Dynamics for fighter jets to name a few. "Owing" numbers I find a bit silly to say the least. And that goes for you as well BMW and Peugeot!

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

feynman, it's not like Ferrari is looking for a cheap excuse to use the F-150 name to it's profit. I guess being associated with a truck is like the last thing they wanted. Besides, a nation's anniversary used in this commemorative and unrelated event is not arbitrary and try telling the Italians their nation's anniversary is less important than a truck! BTW, the date is being celebrated like 4th of July over there, so it's not a merely coincidental date Ferrari used to mess with Ford.

In your example, GM would first use the name to it's profit. Then it would be a product in the same class and that would be a direct competitor. And finally, it would be a really random date used as a weak excuse. At least I'm not hearing anyone in US looking forward to celebrate the exact 150 years of the Civil War. It's something very different.

I bet that even in a US court the Ford lawsuit would have problems being successful, but they knew it was going to get them some publicity. Maybe they don't care about the bad publicity it brings as well. But Ferrari maybe wanted to avoid the hassle and also provocative measures from Ford, like start naming their products with names similar to those Ferrari use.

Volvo is not suing Sauber for the C30 name for instance, as pandamasque said. I guess the "excuse" that it's a racing single seater was good enough for them.

I'm with andartop in this one. The legislation must exist but this nonsense use of it is ridiculous. How can you own a number or a language word for every single possible use of it? It's absurd.

About the political part, whether it's ok or not to mix business and politics like this, It's absolutely not a first time. How many CEO's and other managers of companies talk openly about politics and how many have stepped into the government? In the US, Al Gore used his political position to become a billionaire by selling something that might not even exist.

In Italy, there's a shortage of political leaders and a successful business man of a traditional local company has great chances of being elected and being a break from the horrible years the country is living government wise. At least as far as the goal is concerned, it's a fair shot and much better than the usual attempts made worldwide in that regard.

[myurr]

I think there's a subtle difference between that "Ferrari limo" story and the "F150" story: in the first case Ferrari's image could potentially be damaged if someone was indeed silly enough to assume that vehicle was factory made, whereas in the second case Ford could only benefit from any association of one of its models with a F1 racecar.

Absolute rubbish. Ford would not benefit in any way, and the clashing of the brand names would be bad for Ford.

Of course Ford had every right to do what they did, as unfortunately in this world we live in reason hardly ever has anything to do with legislation.

Ford had to take the action they did as Ferrari would have caused damage to their brand and they would have lost the trademark.

Whether they made more friends or enemies from this story though is another issue. Would be interesting to see whether Ford's sales in Italy next month might be affected!

And that's the stupid thing that is making me bother replying so much on this subject on this forum. Ford have done nothing wrong at all, it's Ferrari who failed to respond to their initial requests forcing them to take legal action or put their trademark for their best selling vehicle at risk.

I am old enough to understand there has to be some legislation protecting copyrights. But the bloody thing is not even a name Ford "invented", it's just a code. Ford might have used it for donkeys years and the same has Ferrari, both for racecars and commercially available models, Yamaha for boat motors and General Dynamics for fighter jets to name a few. "Owing" numbers I find a bit silly to say the least. And that goes for you as well BMW and Peugeot!

As I've said I wish the trademark law was different, but with the way it stands Ford had no option to defend their trademark.

[myurr]

feynman, it's not like Ferrari is looking for a cheap excuse to use the F-150 name to it's profit. I guess being associated with a truck is like the last thing they wanted. Besides, a nation's anniversary used in this commemorative and unrelated event is not arbitrary and try telling the Italians their nation's anniversary is less important than a truck! BTW, the date is being celebrated like 4th of July over there, so it's not a merely coincidental date Ferrari used to mess with Ford.

Yes it is a cheap excuse as it's cynical electioneering by di Montezemolo. But either way that doesn't make a blind bit of difference in US law. Do you think Ferrari would be happy to let Ford produce an F355, F458 or Enzo in celebration of some event or man? They would defend their trademarks just as Ford have done.

I bet that even in a US court the Ford lawsuit would have problems being successful, but they knew it was going to get them some publicity. Maybe they don't care about the bad publicity it brings as well. But Ferrari maybe wanted to avoid the hassle and also provocative measures from Ford, like start naming their products with names similar to those Ferrari use.

Again absolute tosh. It was a pretty straight forward case, with a direct clash in merchandising, and the use of the F150 trademark by two car companies. Ferrari backed down immediately because they knew they would lose.

Also if Ferrari were being all docile and amicable why did they not bother to respond to Ford's initial request? Were they too busy? Or was it more that di Montezemolo knew that he'd get more press coverage over the name of the car and the reasons for choosing it if forced Ford to take the matter to court.

Volvo is not suing Sauber for the C30 name for instance, as pandamasque said. I guess the "excuse" that it's a racing single seater was good enough for them.

That is Volvo's choice. Maybe the US merchandising of the C30 isn't as important to them or they are not as protective over their trademark. Either way we're guessing and it does not invalidate Ford's actions. The F150 trademark is clearly worth a lot more to Ford than the C30 one is to Volvo.

I'm with andartop in this one. The legislation must exist but this nonsense use of it is ridiculous. How can you own a number or a language word for every single possible use of it? It's absurd.

Yes it's stupid, and I agree 100% that it should be changed. But under the current law Ford had to take this action or dilute their claim to the F150 trademark. Blame the law and not the plaintif in this case. If the law was different then it's quite possible that Ford's actions would have been frivolous and I would be defending Ferrari. However that is not the case and Ferrari are in the wrong on this one.

About the political part, whether it's ok or not to mix business and politics like this, It's absolutely not a first time. How many CEO's and other managers of companies talk openly about politics and how many have stepped into the government? In the US, Al Gore used his political position to become a billionaire by selling something that might not even exist.

In Italy, there's a shortage of political leaders and a successful business man of a traditional local company has great chances of being elected and being a break from the horrible years the country is living government wise. At least as far as the goal is concerned, it's a fair shot and much better than the usual attempts made worldwide in that regard.

Completely agree, and I believe di Montezemolo would be the better choice for Italy, and I have no problem with it as long as people are honest about what is going on. Just don't dismiss those that believe the naming of the car to be cynical electioneering. di Montezemolo is currently fighting a campaign and both sides are using every cheap excuse over the other to claim superiority. The naming of this car was no different.

[Richard]

Well it certainly got us all talking about the Ford F150 hasn't it?

To be honest, it is a bit of a cock up by Ferrari. The first step when creating a new brand/model name is to do some basic research to check that a similar name doesn't already exist, second step is to ensure it doesn't sound/look rude in other languages.

Ford must be rightly annoyed that the publicity has led to a load of internet chatter ridiculing their vehicle. I'm sure it was the ridcule that provoked them.

I wonder if Ferrari would mind Ford creating a "Modena" limited edition F150. After all, it is just the name of a province in the Emilia-Romagna region of Italy.

As for the Ferrari limo, that seems to have been a flash in the pan. A quick google brings up the original story from 2008, but a look at the limo website shows the Ferrari symbols remained intact. http://www.ferrarilimo.co.uk/home.html

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

myurr, if Ford used those names in racing only vehicles I believe Ferrari wouldn't have much of a point. Though the reason for using them would most likely only to mess with Ferrari, as they have not much relation to Italian names and such. BTW, the avenue in Brazil were the circuit in which the F1 race is done is called Enzo Ferrari. They weren't forced to change it so far.

I can see that the law may require that attitude, but if Volvo isn't doing the same then why is Ford supposedly in the obligation to do it? Is it a difference of the US law? Because if it's similar, if Volvo is not losing the trademark of the C30 then Ford wouldn't also and that would be more of an excuse to have a battle or gain publicity.

Anyway Ferrari should have answered that message indeed. It seems rude and misleading that they didn't and they could have agreed to use the name and not dispute it with each other. I guess that Ferrari didn't believe Ford actually thought they were using this name to harm or brake the trademark of the F-150. Should have answered them even so...

richard_leeds, I guess the name of the city isn't a trademark, like it's supposed to be for a non commercial word. So if they wanted to use it, good luck in trying to associate a truck with a city know for food and super cars. There's even oil that's sold with the name Modena and there's no need to pay for the city or respect trademark. Obviously, you can only sell an oil as coming from Modena if it's from there.

Interestingly, the city of Siena demands that to use it's name in the denomination of a product that's not made there it has to pay an amount. And it's not small.

About the limo, what a shame Ferrari didn't get to remove it's name from it .

[andartop]

myurr - I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong and I'm right, I'm just saying my opinion on this rather insignificant issue that's already been resolved..

I'm not blaming Ford at all for doing anything wrong. In my opinion, they just shouldn't have bothered.

The two examples I've found of a Superser F150 gas heater and a Yamaha F150 boat engine possibly indicate that they wouldn't have lost the trademark. The gas heater might be a completely different kind of product but still I think both the F150 gas heater and the Yamaha F150 boat engine are possibly as close to a Ford F-150 as a Ford F-150 is to a Formula 1 Ferrari F150th Italia racecar that isn't even available for purchase: both the Ford F-150 and the Yamaha F150 are four-stroke, with double overhead cams and electronic fuel injection, and they're best for off-road use; both the Ford F-150 and the Superser F150 produce a lot of heat and carbon dioxide, and they both come equipped with standard front grilles. As for the Ferrari, I can't find any other similarity than the fact they both have four wheels.

[feynman]

Heaters and boats aren't a problem.

Trademarks are organised into classifcations, Ford maintains the F-150 trademark in numerous categories, but specifically in this cse 'automotive vehicles', and 't-shirt/apparel'.

They do not have an F-150 registered trademark in boats or heaters. (Even if they did file such paperwork, without active participation, or products in those market sectors, the trademark would be challenged and revoked).

They had active, and massively valuable, trademarks in two specific sectors, and another company wanted to market an identically named product in those sectors, Ford management would have been reckless and negligent to allow such a transgression to go unchallenged.
Considering the importance of F-150 to Ford, there is no way anyone can seriously or legitimately criticise Ford for protecting legally aquired and properly maintained trademarks and IP.

It's never clever to start salami slicing trademarks, oh an F1 car doesn't look like a truck, that's not relevant, what if GM or Toyota built a track-only racing truck called the F150, what if they built a road-going version of that separate racing truck. It doesn't matter, Ferrari infringed someone else's trademark, and they knew it; they folded without any resistance because they knew full well they were bang out of order and were banged to rights.

[dice782]

Numbers cannot be copy written there for if Ferrari were to go to an IP court in the U.S Ford may not win it is a very long shot! Ford will lose and will either have to swallow it or change the name of their very popular brand f-150 truck like how Intel renamed their I486 to Pentium. F-150 is not even a trade mark! I think Ferrari could embarrass Ford.
A Precedent has been set in this matter, if you remember in the 1990’s around 1992 Intel used to sell the Intel i486 & i386 processors and AMD started producing clones called AM486 & am386, or something like that. Intel took AMD to court and lost, the reason was that Numbers cannot be a copyright and cannot become a property of an individual. This was despite the fact that the AM486 was a clone and clear competition to Intel’s own chip, they still lost. If Ferrari called their car the Ferrari Mustang 2011 then obviously this would be a clear violation. It is a Ferrari F1650 So I don’t know if the laws have changed since but I think it’s just nonsense. Ford must just shut up or return to Formula one and bully Ferrari on the track.

[dice782]

"It is a Ferrari F150 So I don’t know if the laws have changed since but I think it’s just nonsense. Ford must just shut up or return to Formula one and bully Ferrari on the track."

mistake Sorry !

[myurr]

Actually you can trademark everyday things and objects, even numbers. Notable trademarks include things like Apple and Windows, both everyday objects, and that Dale Earnhardt owns a trademark on the number 1 (albeit with limited scope)!! You are also mistaken when you state that the Pentium is a 486, internally the Pentium is referred to as a 586 and was a new architecture. All Intel CPU's such as the 386 and 486 are trademarked, even though they are just numbers. AMD licensed the rights to use the x86 instruction set and I would imagine that as Intel used the processor names to distinguish between versions of the microarchitecture and supported instruction set that this license also included some rights to use the trademarks.

So I'm afraid that as the US law stands you are mistaken and that Ford would have probably won the case, hence Ferrari backing down.