Overtaking in F1 and what it should not be

[Ogami musashi]

Maybe I'm just stuck in my ways, but, for the life of me, I don't understand how something like DRS is deemed fair when, at any singular point during a race, it's only allowed for 23 of the 24 cars on track.

For the third time: This is the exact same way with no DRS/Not winged cars. Being in the slipstream of the leader makes you faster in straight (and in corners for non winged cars) and the leader can't benefit from it until it is behind a lapped car.

The DRS was introduced because that advantage that is a fundamental of racing was hampered by increasing drag due to wake structure.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Alonso and Petrov last year? Wouldnt have happened under DRS. Alonso himself couldnt not get the balance right because his car would turn into an understeery beast in corners requiring high levels of downforce, and him not able to get on the throttle as early as he would otherwise normally.

Trulli trains? Forget it, not under DRS because the moment someone is 1 second behind he can get a fair crack at having a go. Its up to Trulli(or whoever is due to be passed) to defend.

We saw Schumacher defend like a demon against others using DRS to attack him, would these situations of defensive and offensive driving have happened as frequently as it would without DRS? Of course not.

Call it artificial, I call it watchable. And its entertainment at the end of the day, and DRS is delivering that in spite of what some purists may think warrants an overtake.

[Sebp]

Let's limit the maximum braking force applied to the discs. Cars would slow down for a longer time. This would lead to larger braking zones which in turn would give us a lot more outbraking manoeuvres.

Apologies if this has been proposed already...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Let's limit the maximum braking force applied to the discs. Cars would slow down for a longer time. This would lead to larger braking zones which in turn would give us a lot more outbraking manoeuvres.

Apologies if this has been proposed already...

I agree that brakes are too good. Maybe you could homolgate the rules to encompass production car brakes be used. Say, 1000 units sold to qualify?

[Ogami musashi]

....

I wonder if people that complain actually watch the races..

[tommylommykins]

I think there are possibly two issues with reducing braking force:

1) safety. It's extremely important to have cars that can stop quickly to help them avoid accidents

2) preventing people from overtaking by 'outbreaking' each other, since brave drivers could no longer wait for a bit, then apply jut a little bit more pressure than not-so-brave drivers, to allow them to get past.

[Giblet]

Right now the brakes are the only thing keeping these guys world class. The GP2 cars would be almost as quick if the brakes were lessened, especially now that they are on the same tires.

The one thing drivers from other series always say after their first f1 test "The brakes were the biggest change".

Unfortunately making the braking distances longer will make most of the Tilke tracks lose whatever character they might have. Thats the problem with designing tracks for cars, the cars can change.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

....

I wonder if people that complain actually watch the races..

+1

[Giblet]

I read the number 65 somewhere but can't find the article. It was either there was 65 passes without DRS being used, or 65% of the passes were made without DRS.

Neither figure would surprise me.

[Just_a_fan]

Maybe I'm just stuck in my ways, but, for the life of me, I don't understand how something like DRS is deemed fair when, at any singular point during a race, it's only allowed for 23 of the 24 cars on track.

It's socialist racing, comrade. The guy who is doing well must be hampered to allow others to catch him up! Anyone who does better than him will likewise be hampered. The end result is a series of position reassignements in an attempt to keep the masses happy. An expensive system which ultimately achieves nothing

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Precisely Giblet.

DRS in itself isnt making the overtakes. I think the tyres and the difference in strategy is making up that 65% difference.
All the more reason to have DRS, because with more pitstops, it would hurt you no end being stuck behind someone who is slower and out for longer.

China certainly was a brilliant advertisement for Modern F1 IMO.

[Just_a_fan]

....

I wonder if people that complain actually watch the races..

I think some of the people who complain only do so because their favoured driver isn't doing as well as they think he should...

[Pandamasque]

It seems to end with the conclusion ..
"In the end, Formula One as it is now, with KERS and Pirelli tyres could easily do without a drag reduction system, which is a very artificial system in its currently regulated form."

I couldn't agree more! I want more battles, not more 'free' overtaking.

[Sebp]

Do you think it's a good idea to have more tyre stops and use more rubber when F1 is supposed to go greener?
I'd rather have the tyres last the whole race and give the guys more KERS juice or something like that.
With the turbos coming back we could have a boost control again. That was quite good as overtaking moves had to be planned tactically.

[machin]

This would lead to larger braking zones which in turn would give us a lot more outbraking manoeuvres.

Why would it? If both drivers start at the same speed, end at the same speed and have the same tyres (i.e. the same grip) then the relative braking distance between the two drivers is the same regardless of the actual length of the braking zone....?

In fact its worse if the grip levels stay the same as there'll be no skill braking since the deceleration will be brake force limited not driver skill limited (i.e. trying to brake at the limit).