2013 Malaysian GP - Sepang

[myurr]

I was thinking. What if Multi 21 wasn't "hold position?"

Here's my reasoning:
- Vettel is not dumb. He's quite a smart cookie.
- The fact that Vettel used "misunderstood" as an excuse means that "Multi 21" could be something that is misunderstood.

I wonder if Multi 21, or whatever their pre-agreed plan was before the race, was basically to "tone the engine down and manage the tyres" - as opposed to "holding station."

Webber perhaps understood it as, "if both cars are managing tyres and engines, then we won't race each other."
Vettel perhaps understood it as, "tone the engine down, and manage the tyres."

I do not believe that Vettel is dumb enough to misunderstand "hold position" - nor do I think he is dumb enough to think that people will accept that he misunderstood "hold position."

This would be valid only if you believe Vettel to be telling the truth. Even his team principle, who usually defends him through thick and thin, is briefing the press that it was deliberate.

If we take the premise that Vettel isn't dumb (which I agree with) then how did he fail to understand Horner's "this is silly Seb" as meaning that he was doing something against the teams wishes? Why would he fail to understand Rocky's "there'll be some explaining to do" and later claim the first he knew about it was in the green room after the race? And why wouldn't he reply to Webber's "Multi 21 Seb.... multi 21" after the race to try and explain rather than just glare at him whilst drinking his drink?

I do not believe Vettel is dumb enough to misunderstand the instruction, but it would appear that he is dumb enough to try and lie his way out of it after the race.

[nacho]

A pity to have team orders already in the second race. Thumbs up from me to Vettel for going for the win, I would have hoped to see Rosberg do the same. I remember how much garbage Ferrari got from their use of team orders, Horner was very critical himself if I remember correctly. I think its ok once the other driver has lost chances on winning the title and wants to help but before that, pull the radio cord out!

[example]

Are Red Bull really protecting Vettel, or he just knows they can do nothing and he's abusing that?

[myurr]

Are Red Bull really protecting Vettel, or he just knows they can do nothing and he's abusing that?

Usually they just protect him - look at the teams comments after Turkey 2010. However in this case they don't seem to be protecting him quite as much. They're letting the world know he did something wrong, but then they're playing it down.

I can think of two good reasons why they'd do that. 1) He's defied a team order and they need to reestablish authority. 2) The team know they may need to call upon Mark later in the year to support Vettel and are trying to rebuild that bridge.

[stefan_]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhxPKmDhC8s[/youtube]

[example]

Are Red Bull really protecting Vettel, or he just knows they can do nothing and he's abusing that?

Usually they just protect him - look at the teams comments after Turkey 2010. However in this case they don't seem to be protecting him quite as much. They're letting the world know he did something wrong, but then they're playing it down.

I can think of two good reasons why they'd do that. 1) He's defied a team order and they need to reestablish authority. 2) The team know they may need to call upon Mark later in the year to support Vettel and are trying to rebuild that bridge.

I agree, they want to move over this at least for their own sake.But I think this is similar when parents can't really control their child, who then does everything he wants just beacause he knows that there won't be consequences.
Vettel won't sit out next race or something similar, he will most probably still recieve Mark's support as you suggested.
He needs to grow up, I'm sick of listening to his rants on radio like the first one yesterday or last season in against Ricciardo.

[zoro_f1]

no one saw the article so i made a screen shot just in case.

On what Multi 21 actualy means.
Near the bottom of this page:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/red-bull-rb9/
On the steering wheel on the right is the Mult(i) octagon with number of 1-8. On the left there are the numbers 1 to x. Could (multi) 2-1 be a combination of these numbers a 2 on the left and a 1 on the right?

[AnthonyG]

I'd give vettel 1.5litres less fuel than Mark for the rest of the season, seems like a good solution to prevent them fighting eachother when they're told not to.

[Dragonfly]

It's unbelievable how people are ready to sacrifice the joy and excitement of watching real racing (if they ever feel such excitement that is) only to satisfy their hatred towards a driver.

[jamsbong]

I just read this analysis from BBC F1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21918537

Gary pointed out some obvious difference between RedBull and Mercedes. Brawn was authoritative giving a direct order where as RedBull was giving a statement "Seb, this is getting silly". For example, that can be interpreted as, yes I am being silly, but I have a good reason to be so.

I think this discussion has been blown out of proportion with examples like Multi-21 speculated to be a team order of #2 driver allowed to stay ahead of #1 when it is realistically just a code for fuel saving mode on the wheel. Unless RB clearly explains what multi21 is, we will never know for sure and thus should never be used as a fact in this debate.

The way I see it, Vettel was hungry and clever enough to collect as many points as possible when his nearest opponents were having a bad day. To achieve that he had to overtake Webber, ignore a few statements from his team and put up with angry face Webber. Think about it, when was the last time Webber actually helped his teammate?

[zoro_f1]

[sAx]

Just as your choice of words isn't 'self evident' neither is this. Until we know 100% either way, we're all, myself included, are guessing. To assume something is blinding clear for everyone, as you put it, puts forums redundant, don't you think?

.....actually no! Redundancy is the circularity of the argument. The arbitor surely is Mr Horner himself? The instruction was given, Seb chose to ignore it, end of. Or are you now suggesting that you are the font of Mr Horner's wisdom? The story finished when the chequered flag dropped!

How is trying to understand if a used term is an actual technical setting used on the car or a term used as code for team orders - redundant? Do you know for sure? If so, I'd love to see the evidence.

As for me being Horner's 'font of wisdom' - I will only reply

The story finished when the chequered flag dropped!

...It's still making world wide news bulletins, even on my tv where I am now... - I understand you're not into the discussion...

Really, what were they discussing on the news near you? The disobeyed instruction or the meaning of reduced engine power settings? What you fail to understand is that we get it, further forensic analysis of how the big the numbers 2 and 1 are is only clouding us with your judgement.

[Cam]

So it is an engine setting or code?

[strad]

To me it is all to reminiscent of 1982

At the end of lap 45 the order was Villeneuve from Pironi. For the fans, this was like manna from heaven. An unchallenged Ferrari 1-2 on home ground! The Maranello pit hung out the slow signal to its drivers. The team knew that fuel consumption was going to be marginal if the two red cars had to battle hard all the way, so now they could take things easy.
Gilles was confident, he had been in the lead when Arnoux retired, so he figured it was his victory. Still Pironi tried to race him. The two cars swapped places, but they were just cruising and Villeneuve was happy to play.
Into the last lap Gilles was in the lead. ‘I was running so easily you just can’t believe it,’ he said afterwards. ‘I was cruising along and believed that Pironi was being honest. I was not expecting him to pass me again, but all of a sudden I saw him coming up on me. He slides past with all wheels almost locked and that’s the end of that.
By any standards, it was an over the top move. Pironi pulled out of Villeneuve’s slipstream to the left as they slammed through the flat-out right-hander before the uphill left-hand hairpin at Tosa. Didier almost lost control, but emerged in the lead for the rest of the lap there was nothing Gilles could do about it .
The Ferraris finished 1-2, Pironi-Villeneuve. Didier insisted afterward that, "We both had engine problems and, no, there were no team orders." GiIles was livid, something quite out of the ordinary for him, ‘It's just not true. Ever since I’ve been at Ferrari when you get a ‘slow’ sign it means ‘hold position”. Second is one thing, but second because he steals it, that’s something else.”’ Villeneuve vowed never to speak to Pironi again, and can anyone wonder why?

[raymondu999]

This would be valid only if you believe Vettel to be telling the truth.

I don't think so.

Even if Multi21 really WAS just a fuel-save engine map, then perhaps Vettel did one lap outside of the fuel save, to be able to have a better go at the lead, or perhaps didn't enter fuelsave - that would've been deliberate. Now, IMO the engine fuel-save map theory still holds water, because:

how did he fail to understand Horner's "this is silly Seb"

I don't think it's too farfetched. I personally understood it as "you're racing too hard Seb - leave more room." Don't forget that they have collided before, in Turkey 2010, thanks to neither yielding. I think the interpretation of this is not as clear-cut as "don't race" at all.

Why would he fail to understand Rocky's "there'll be some explaining to do" and later claim the first he knew about it was in the green room after the race?

Simple - because FOM might not have released the reply transmission. It could even have been a confused reply.

And why wouldn't he reply to Webber's "Multi 21 Seb.... multi 21" after the race to try and explain rather than just glare at him whilst drinking his drink?

Perhaps he was still cooling down, and wanted to let the adrenalin drain first. After all, he did talk to Mark after the podium.

I do not believe Vettel is dumb enough to misunderstand the instruction, but it would appear that he is dumb enough to try and lie his way out of it after the race.

I disagree. I don't think Seb is that stupid - though that is admittedly a judgment call. After all, Peter Sauber has always said that Vettel was one of, if not the, smartest driver he's ever worked with.