2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[BMMR61]

That reason doesn't have to be that someone was taking advantage of it though. That reason could be that someone requested clarification, for instance, wanting to see if there was something to be done. Because that reason is totally unknown to us, anything beyond that is pure guesswork.

As the saying goes "correlation doesn't equal causation". People are looking for an engineering answer for the drop off in Red Bull's performance. Do we know for certain that Ferrari were using a fuel flow hack to have the strongest engine in 2019 and that FIA action taken caused them to drop from 2nd to 6th in WCC results across the two years? It has never been fully admitted and articulated. It HAS been generally accepted in the paddock even if Ferrari will never admit it. Could we have another parallel to this? Craig Scarborough has apparently a technical description of how easy the bleed valve in the brake line could be created and be effective. This in addition to the Paolo Filisetti theory in Racing News 365 that I shared elsewhere. Theories and conjecture? Sure. Doesn't mean though that they don't have the truth or at least a thread of truth of why Red Bull have lost their powerful competitive edge so suddenly.

[Seerix]

I missed for 11 days and I'm hearing all hell breaking or should I say Brake-ing lose. What is this I'm hearing about Red Bull cheating again? Do we have a Brakegate in our hands?

Why do you ask about it here? I'd check RedBull thread instead.

[Darth-Piekus]

Simple. Because it affects Mclaren and our drivers. Illegalities should be punishable. I agree that illegalities were happening a long time now but isn't it time they take some action at some point?

Anyway. Next week we have the second part of the season where Mclaren is expected to start bringing updates, thus opening the distance and start getting wins.

[Swed3121]

Simple. Because it affects Mclaren and our drivers. Illegalities should be punishable. I agree that illegalities were happening a long time now but isn't it time they take some action at some point?

Anyway. Next week we have the second part of the season where Mclaren is expected to start bringing updates, thus opening the distance and start getting wins.

For the 790th time, IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL.

The fia issues a clarification of the rules, meaning someone asked „can we do this“ and the fia looked into it and decided no.

This is the McLaren thread please focus on what we are doing and not the others

[Seerix]

Simple. Because it affects Mclaren and our drivers. Illegalities should be punishable. I agree that illegalities were happening a long time now but isn't it time they take some action at some point?

Anyway. Next week we have the second part of the season where Mclaren is expected to start bringing updates, thus opening the distance and start getting wins.

I am 100% sure if you saw any team have 3 consecutive huge upgrades bringing said team from 9th position on the grid to the top, you would never stop talking about them cheating and how they should be banned. It just happens that it's Mclaren this time. Double standards, huh?

[Darth-Piekus]

Seerix if it was a team like Mclaren, Mercedes or Ferrari who have the resources I wouldnt be surprised they could progress so much. If it was a team like Haas who never produced anything in their life I would be watching them closely. Red Bull is between that category. They have the resources but they have been controversial for many years now.

[Emag]

Seerix if it was a team like Mclaren, Mercedes or Ferrari who have the resources I wouldnt be surprised they could progress so much. If it was a team like Haas who never produced anything in their life I would be watching them closely. Red Bull is between that category. They have the resources but they have been controversial for many years now.

Dietrich Mateschitz (may he rest in peace) put a significant amount of resources behind the F1 programme when RedBull was in their infancy. So much so that he lured Newey in as well with an exciting prospect.

In general, there’s hardly been any major controversy surrounding RedBull. They were big spenders and had a lot of brain power running that team bringing the 4 championships in the last decade.

Their failure to deliver during the hybrid era was more down to Renault and them allowing Honda room to grow later on rather than the team not being up to par with Ferrari and Mercedes.

You may not like their origins and lack of history on the sport, but you can’t discredit the amazing team of people that achieved such great success in (F1 terms) such short time.

Nevertheless, their dropoff this year from Miami and onwards has been a bit peculiar. Combine it with the “catering” fiasco and you start to question whether or not all of this was achieved while competing on equal grounds on the basis of the rules. Tough to judge it at the moment imo, just speculation running around.

Still, it’s not like the other top teams are saints anyway. Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren have their fair share of controversy. As long as everyone is punished equally for braking rules, there’s no grounds to claim “moral superiority” for any of them.

[mwillems]

Yeah. It's the name of the game. Find the gaps in the rules, and exploit. Some teams will be more black hat than others, some a darker shade of grey, some lighter. I'll warrant there are no white hats in F1 and very few in the lighter shades of grey! There are no angels in F1, just a lot of numbers, measurements, tests and some very clever people.
McLaren's wings are amongst the most flexible, for instance. But this is neither hidden nor against the current rules/tests even if we are "bending" the spirit of the previous flexi wing clarification. Some teams, like Ferrari in the past with their engine, will outright break the rules and take the advantage for as long as they can.

Indeed, RB are controversial, but not in a design or a technical way. Only in their personalities relating to inter team relationships and on track events. From a technical perspective they have been outstanding and a benchmark for much of the past decade plus.

[Darth-Piekus]

Yeah. It's the name of the game. Find the gaps in the rules, and exploit. Some teams will be more black hat than others, some a darker shade of grey, some lighter. I'll warrant there are no white hats in F1 and very few in the lighter shades of grey! There are no angels in F1, just a lot of numbers, measurements, tests and some very clever people.
McLaren's wings are amongst the most flexible, for instance. But this is neither hidden nor against the current rules/tests even if we are "bending" the spirit of the previous flexi wing clarification. Some teams, like Ferrari in the past with their engine, will outright break the rules and take the advantage for as long as they can.

Indeed, RB are controversial, but not in a design or a technical way. Only in their personalities relating to inter team relationships and on track events. From a technical perspective they have been outstanding and a benchmark for much of the past decade plus.

Well that is debatable. Red Bull has been behind a lot of controversial moves it makes me wonder how many times have they bent the rules that we dont even know. You know how politics and agreements under the table go.

[mwillems]

Yeah. It's the name of the game. Find the gaps in the rules, and exploit. Some teams will be more black hat than others, some a darker shade of grey, some lighter. I'll warrant there are no white hats in F1 and very few in the lighter shades of grey! There are no angels in F1, just a lot of numbers, measurements, tests and some very clever people.
McLaren's wings are amongst the most flexible, for instance. But this is neither hidden nor against the current rules/tests even if we are "bending" the spirit of the previous flexi wing clarification. Some teams, like Ferrari in the past with their engine, will outright break the rules and take the advantage for as long as they can.

Indeed, RB are controversial, but not in a design or a technical way. Only in their personalities relating to inter team relationships and on track events. From a technical perspective they have been outstanding and a benchmark for much of the past decade plus.

Well that is debatable. Red Bull has been behind a lot of controversial moves it makes me wonder how many times have they bent the rules that we don't even know. You know how politics and agreements under the table go.

Restricting the conversation to technical design, with no creep into personal grievances, what is it that Red Bull have done over the years that has breached or maybe even come too close to the limit of the technical regulations?

So, no cost cap, no beef with Horner or Verstappen, or any individual. Just in the technical design of the car.

[Darth-Piekus]

Flex wings I would say, using the B team as a shield but nothing else comes to mind yet. Both issues had a lot of controversy though.

[mwillems]

Flex wings I would say, using the B team as a shield but nothing else comes to mind yet. Both issues had a lot of controversy though.

B Team has never been shown to be aiding RBs car design. Flexi wings, they did nothing wrong. They found a way to gain benefit within the rules and tests and exploited it until the tests were tightened, like we may well be doing now.

Basically, nothing around the way they design the car has breached rules and they do not have a history of designing illegal cars or parts. Only a ridiculous amount of bias and bad will would cause an individual to suggest so.

I don't like Red Bull, but I admire then, they are a brilliant team who are the masters of car design, I hope that Mclaren are in the early stages of emulating their abilities and hopefully their success.

[mclaren111]

Flex wings I would say, using the B team as a shield but nothing else comes to mind yet. Both issues had a lot of controversy though.

B Team has never been shown to be aiding RBs car design. Flexi wings, they did nothing wrong. They found a way to gain benefit within the rules and tests and exploited it until the tests were tightened, like we may well be doing now.

Basically, nothing around the way they design the car has breached rules and they do not have a history of designing illegal cars or parts. Only a ridiculous amount of bias and bad will would cause an individual to suggest so.

I don't like Red Bull, but I admire then, they are a brilliant team who are the masters of car design, I hope that Mclaren are in the early stages of emulating their abilities and hopefully their success.

Hell Yes... We've been waiting a long long time to be on top again...

[Emag]

Flex wings I would say, using the B team as a shield but nothing else comes to mind yet. Both issues had a lot of controversy though.

B Team has never been shown to be aiding RBs car design. Flexi wings, they did nothing wrong. They found a way to gain benefit within the rules and tests and exploited it until the tests were tightened, like we may well be doing now.

Basically, nothing around the way they design the car has breached rules and they do not have a history of designing illegal cars or parts. Only a ridiculous amount of bias and bad will would cause an individual to suggest so.

I don't like Red Bull, but I admire then, they are a brilliant team who are the masters of car design, I hope that Mclaren are in the early stages of emulating their abilities and hopefully their success.

Hell Yes... We've been waiting a long long time to be on top again...

It's the nature of the sport and it shows how brutal it can be for those working hard to deliver results.

People stop caring anymore where you come from and how hard it is to get at the front. Once you put yourself in a position where top results are possible, you will get harshly judged if you don't meet that expectation. It is happening to McLaren, and it happened (in a more severe level) to Aston as well.

I guess it was easy for people to forget that McLaren had barely been able to produce any sort of memorable performances since 2013. Up until the midpoint of last year, that's a whole decade. Way too long of a time to be away from the top. It's therefore natural that operationally, they cannot perform at the same level as teams which have been fighting at the top for the entirety of that 10 year period.

Nevertheless, well-wishes don't hurt anyone as long as they're within reasonable bounds of expectations.

For my side, I don't have any expectation the driver's championship is reachable this year. It would be RedBull's to lose and bar some miracle, the difference is quite significant to close when you have such high competition with Mercedes (and highly likely, Ferrari at some point again) being there to steal good results when RedBull is having an off-day.

The WCC on the other hand, I feel it's a realistic target albeit still not easy. It would be a tremendous achievement for the team.

It would be the first one since 1998 and would reset a counter that's been active for almost 30 years.

[bauc]

I hope we can win the constructors this year, it would be a huge boost for next years chances to fight for the drivers as well.