https://racingnews365.com/how-a-minor-f ... n-red-bullDarth-Piekus wrote: ↑17 Aug 2024, 16:29I missed for 11 days and I'm hearing all hell breaking or should I say Brake-ing lose. What is this I'm hearing about Red Bull cheating again? Do we have a Brakegate in our hands?
As the saying goes "correlation doesn't equal causation". People are looking for an engineering answer for the drop off in Red Bull's performance. Do we know for certain that Ferrari were using a fuel flow hack to have the strongest engine in 2019 and that FIA action taken caused them to drop from 2nd to 6th in WCC results across the two years? It has never been fully admitted and articulated. It HAS been generally accepted in the paddock even if Ferrari will never admit it. Could we have another parallel to this? Craig Scarborough has apparently a technical description of how easy the bleed valve in the brake line could be created and be effective. This in addition to the Paolo Filisetti theory in Racing News 365 that I shared elsewhere. Theories and conjecture? Sure. Doesn't mean though that they don't have the truth or at least a thread of truth of why Red Bull have lost their powerful competitive edge so suddenly.mwillems wrote: ↑17 Aug 2024, 16:06That reason doesn't have to be that someone was taking advantage of it though. That reason could be that someone requested clarification, for instance, wanting to see if there was something to be done. Because that reason is totally unknown to us, anything beyond that is pure guesswork.
Why do you ask about it here? I'd check RedBull thread instead.Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑17 Aug 2024, 16:29I missed for 11 days and I'm hearing all hell breaking or should I say Brake-ing lose. What is this I'm hearing about Red Bull cheating again? Do we have a Brakegate in our hands?
For the 790th time, IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL.Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 00:44Simple. Because it affects Mclaren and our drivers. Illegalities should be punishable. I agree that illegalities were happening a long time now but isn't it time they take some action at some point?
Anyway. Next week we have the second part of the season where Mclaren is expected to start bringing updates, thus opening the distance and start getting wins.
I am 100% sure if you saw any team have 3 consecutive huge upgrades bringing said team from 9th position on the grid to the top, you would never stop talking about them cheating and how they should be banned. It just happens that it's Mclaren this time. Double standards, huh?Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑18 Aug 2024, 00:44Simple. Because it affects Mclaren and our drivers. Illegalities should be punishable. I agree that illegalities were happening a long time now but isn't it time they take some action at some point?
Anyway. Next week we have the second part of the season where Mclaren is expected to start bringing updates, thus opening the distance and start getting wins.
Dietrich Mateschitz (may he rest in peace) put a significant amount of resources behind the F1 programme when RedBull was in their infancy. So much so that he lured Newey in as well with an exciting prospect.Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 09:50Seerix if it was a team like Mclaren, Mercedes or Ferrari who have the resources I wouldnt be surprised they could progress so much. If it was a team like Haas who never produced anything in their life I would be watching them closely. Red Bull is between that category. They have the resources but they have been controversial for many years now.![]()
Well that is debatable. Red Bull has been behind a lot of controversial moves it makes me wonder how many times have they bent the rules that we dont even know. You know how politics and agreements under the table go.mwillems wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 11:55Yeah. It's the name of the game. Find the gaps in the rules, and exploit. Some teams will be more black hat than others, some a darker shade of grey, some lighter. I'll warrant there are no white hats in F1 and very few in the lighter shades of grey! There are no angels in F1, just a lot of numbers, measurements, tests and some very clever people.
McLaren's wings are amongst the most flexible, for instance. But this is neither hidden nor against the current rules/tests even if we are "bending" the spirit of the previous flexi wing clarification. Some teams, like Ferrari in the past with their engine, will outright break the rules and take the advantage for as long as they can.
Indeed, RB are controversial, but not in a design or a technical way. Only in their personalities relating to inter team relationships and on track events. From a technical perspective they have been outstanding and a benchmark for much of the past decade plus.
Restricting the conversation to technical design, with no creep into personal grievances, what is it that Red Bull have done over the years that has breached or maybe even come too close to the limit of the technical regulations?Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 13:24Well that is debatable. Red Bull has been behind a lot of controversial moves it makes me wonder how many times have they bent the rules that we don't even know. You know how politics and agreements under the table go.mwillems wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 11:55Yeah. It's the name of the game. Find the gaps in the rules, and exploit. Some teams will be more black hat than others, some a darker shade of grey, some lighter. I'll warrant there are no white hats in F1 and very few in the lighter shades of grey! There are no angels in F1, just a lot of numbers, measurements, tests and some very clever people.
McLaren's wings are amongst the most flexible, for instance. But this is neither hidden nor against the current rules/tests even if we are "bending" the spirit of the previous flexi wing clarification. Some teams, like Ferrari in the past with their engine, will outright break the rules and take the advantage for as long as they can.
Indeed, RB are controversial, but not in a design or a technical way. Only in their personalities relating to inter team relationships and on track events. From a technical perspective they have been outstanding and a benchmark for much of the past decade plus.
B Team has never been shown to be aiding RBs car design. Flexi wings, they did nothing wrong. They found a way to gain benefit within the rules and tests and exploited it until the tests were tightened, like we may well be doing now.Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 15:32Flex wings I would say, using the B team as a shield but nothing else comes to mind yet. Both issues had a lot of controversy though.
mwillems wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 15:42B Team has never been shown to be aiding RBs car design. Flexi wings, they did nothing wrong. They found a way to gain benefit within the rules and tests and exploited it until the tests were tightened, like we may well be doing now.Darth-Piekus wrote: ↑19 Aug 2024, 15:32Flex wings I would say, using the B team as a shield but nothing else comes to mind yet. Both issues had a lot of controversy though.
Basically, nothing around the way they design the car has breached rules and they do not have a history of designing illegal cars or parts. Only a ridiculous amount of bias and bad will would cause an individual to suggest so.
I don't like Red Bull, but I admire then, they are a brilliant team who are the masters of car design, I hope that Mclaren are in the early stages of emulating their abilities and hopefully their success.