2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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ringo
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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grubschumi has on red and blue tinted 3d glasses when it comes to this season.
Even Ray Charles can see the redbull is the best car to drive this season. It has no weaknesses and is fast everywhere. That is why it is glued to the front row for every start.
Max of course is driving brilliantly, and the only way Hamilton has a chance of winning this title is errors on Max's part, bad luck, and penalties.
If Lewis turns champion this year, it will be because redbull lost it. Yes he would have had to drive his nuts off like he did today to be in with a shout, but that's as much as he can do. I do not see the W12 having the upper hand in any of the races going forward.
2 more DNF would do the trick :mrgreen: , and even then Max still has the best chance with his RB16B.
For Sure!!

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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ispano6 wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:57
epo wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:00
PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 17:56


Can easily argue its more like barely scraping through in a dominant car, but alas.
Stop this kiddo behaviour dude.
Seriously, for some people from Camp Hamilton a good fair race is one where Max isn't allowed to challenge Lewis. I'm amazed Max wasn't taken out, compromised, or a Mercedes powered car didn't cause a red flag, though Lando and Seb got close. Lewis saying Max was super lucky to not get caught in traffic when it was Hamilton primarily benefitting from DRS and the tow from back markers. Once Max is past, everyone knows Hamilton is coming right after and moved over. Pff, lucky yeah right.
It really wasn't, maybe for what you see on tv, but the live timing and driver tracker was showing a different story. just before Max caught Bottas for example, Lewis was on Max but Lewis lost a second in one go just as Max would have been vulnerable. Latifi cost Lewis a good chunk today also, as did the Alpha Tauris.

If they fell the other way round, Lewis would have at least been able to have a look at Max possibly. still it doesn't matter, Monza will be a different story. On to the temple of speed
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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ringo wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 22:51
grubschumi has on red and blue tinted 3d glasses when it comes to this season.
Even Ray Charles can see the redbull is the best car to drive this season. It has no weaknesses and is fast everywhere. That is why it is glued to the front row for every start.
Max of course is driving brilliantly, and the only way Hamilton has a chance of winning this title is errors on Max's part, bad luck, and penalties.
If Lewis turns champion this year, it will be because redbull lost it. Yes he would have had to drive his nuts off like he did today to be in with a shout, but that's as much as he can do. I do not see the W12 having the upper hand in any of the races going forward.
2 more DNF would do the trick :mrgreen: , and even then Max still has the best chance with his RB16B.
Landos quote today was quite telling, when asked about holding off Perez, his reply was "He's driving the fastest car on the grid"
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F1NAC
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 20:52
Unf wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 20:30
PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 20:15
Did anyone notice that Bottas let Max past too easily? Great number two driver, huh?
O_O

What are you talking about?
At the beginning of straight line, Max was like 0,1s behind Bottas. In DRS era, in that case, driver in front can do literally nothing to defend himself. It's no brainer.
Straight lines?! :shock: You don't back people up in straight lines in F1... :!: Are you sure you are OK? Unf? I am seriously concerned here. :o you know what. I'm calling the ambulance. Where you at bro? Sit tight. They're coming! they coming! :o

Jokes aside. Bottas had a bunch of opportunites to make his car as big as possible throught pretty much every else except the straights and the carrousell.
Bottas made a mistake(ran out of tyres) running wide at the chicane. Enabling Verstappen to be right at his back. Nothing he could do. RB was simply too quick

f1jcw
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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F1NAC wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 22:59
PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 20:52
Unf wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 20:30


O_O

What are you talking about?
At the beginning of straight line, Max was like 0,1s behind Bottas. In DRS era, in that case, driver in front can do literally nothing to defend himself. It's no brainer.
Straight lines?! :shock: You don't back people up in straight lines in F1... :!: Are you sure you are OK? Unf? I am seriously concerned here. :o you know what. I'm calling the ambulance. Where you at bro? Sit tight. They're coming! they coming! :o

Jokes aside. Bottas had a bunch of opportunites to make his car as big as possible throught pretty much every else except the straights and the carrousell.
Bottas made a mistake(ran out of tyres) running wide at the chicane. Enabling Verstappen to be right at his back. Nothing he could do. RB was simply too quick
he does that everytime though

Manoah2u
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 17:33

FIA filters out the boos with audio software.
#-o #-o mods should allow downvoting on that post, seriously. #-o #-o

as mentioned, indeed, to my pleasant surprise, the dutch fans enjoyed their party and did not boo hamilton at all, but cheered to that giant and living legend f1 athlete, whom was also very respectable and greatly enjoying today's race and visually impressed with this crowd.

Max had things covered, it was always going to be questionable to have a chance for Zandvoort for anyone but Max.
Verstappen essentially had the race decided at the start, first corner and first two laps.
Getting a perfect start was essential, as that is the key moment where he could completely lose everything.
Then to also blast off and build a gap and have the undeniable benefit of clean air meant we had Vettel-like dominance.

I was surprised with the 'blandness' of the race. A fantastic track but i had expected more incidents. The Vettel 'spin' could have ended in exactly such a thing, that got really close.

That said, a few things stood out to me.

First and foremost, indeed - Max did everything right and absolutely deserves this win.
As for Mercedes - the team gave big chances away.
The first pitstop for Lewis with the front right did not go according to standards,
he lost too much time. It was a 0.9 second difference, and this cost them dear.

Hamilton's speed partly due to being in fresh air absolutely demanded Max to come in and pit.

Lewis then was really close to Max, and had he not lost those 0.9 seconds he would immediately have been or just in touching distance of DRS range right when Max came out of the pits.

What also stood out was Bottas' once again total uselessness in being a proper tactical shield or benefit.
They mentioned to him the absolute importance of him keeping Max behind and holding him up, and immediately he fails - right away, not even an effort.

Had Bottas driven as one may expect from a very experienced Mercedes driver, then he would guaranteed have influenced Max' ever sufficient to see Hamilton right there with him in DRS range, and then Max would have had to wait an extra lap before he could pass Bottas, with Hamilton right there and crucially, NOT getting also blocked by Bottas in the corner.

Hamilton COULD have made a move on Verstappen on the straight right when Max would have had a shot at passing Bottas.

I however doubt that Hamilton would have made it stick OR that he could have stayed in front of Max after that, but objective analysis shows that the chances Hamilton should have had have been 'robbed' by his own team.

Either way, It's a great result, great for the championship and i can't wait for Russell's announcement and the next GP.
Monza is going to be bare knuckles.

That said, again, great to see a honest and relaxed attitude between both Lewis and Max, and especially the crowd not being sore.

Perez did absolutely FANTASTIC to get well into the points after starting from the PITS @ Zandvoort where 'nobody could overtake'. Once again showing his worth.

Last but not least: What a horrible piece of work is Mazepin. I was surprised he didn't actually get a black flag for that move. I'm sure he knows Mick will be @ a decent Alfa next season and Mazespin will be trashed by Ilott coming season or by Shwarzman.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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DChemTech wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 21:34
Diesel wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 21:29
BlueCheetah66 wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 21:27
I'd say its kind of harsh to say its Max's to lose right now considering he still has engine penalties to take and it still seems circuit dependant on which car is the fastest. If he wins 2 of the next 3 races it is fair to say it's his championship to lose though.
I'd disagree on the circuit dependant part, the Red Bull has been fast everywhere, they've lost quite a few races through errors and accidents.
It's been going back and forth quite a bit car-wise. RB perhaps had the overhand since Austria, but then lost it after the tire change following Baku, which seemed to make.the RB more erratic. Perhaps recent upgrades fixed that, but we've not seen enough to say that. Monza may well be an MB-game, at this point, it's all open.
I don't see the "back and forth". Red Bull have been fastest at the majority of races, and where they were beaten it was either through poor strategy or some kind of unusual incident.

I think Max & Red Bull deserve some credit for the form they are displaying this year.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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The banked final turn was designed for DRS usage but for extra precaion FIA did not allow it there in this reintroduction of Zandvoort.

The race showed that cars could rarely get within two seconds as we saw the field spred out very quickly within a few laps and a longer DRS zone woule have definitely helped here. Granted I still enjoyed the racing but there were a few trains up and down the field.

I hope the FIA allows DRS usage on the final turn next year.
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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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NathanOlder wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 22:54
ringo wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 22:51
grubschumi has on red and blue tinted 3d glasses when it comes to this season.
Even Ray Charles can see the redbull is the best car to drive this season. It has no weaknesses and is fast everywhere. That is why it is glued to the front row for every start.
Max of course is driving brilliantly, and the only way Hamilton has a chance of winning this title is errors on Max's part, bad luck, and penalties.
If Lewis turns champion this year, it will be because redbull lost it. Yes he would have had to drive his nuts off like he did today to be in with a shout, but that's as much as he can do. I do not see the W12 having the upper hand in any of the races going forward.
2 more DNF would do the trick :mrgreen: , and even then Max still has the best chance with his RB16B.
Landos quote today was quite telling, when asked about holding off Perez, his reply was "He's driving the fastest car on the grid"
So then it seems that this year that because Red Bull has the fastest car its OK to destroy it or drive aggressively against it. In previous years Mercedes was so dominant everyone just moved aside. Lando drove into Perez today rather unnecessarily. Lando can be quite the punk too, lacks "respect" . Maybe he's changed a little bit since being mugged, I dunno.

To put it in Lewis and Totos diction, the RB16b is a diva. If it were easy to drive RedBull would be locking out the front row every single race. Bottas is much more comfortable with the W12 than Perez is with the RB16b, that much is obvious. To say that Max has been dominant thanks to a dominant car is rubbish. The Mercs are faster in a straight line. They've got some gray area tech in their plenum, but also go after bendy wings so that they can maintain a straightline advantage or at least claw back what they lack in the corners. Both cars suit different tracks. At the end of the day a car can't drive itself, it can only go as fast as its driver can make it without flying off the track.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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ispano6 wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 03:47

So then it seems that this year that because Red Bull has the fastest car its OK to destroy it or drive aggressively against it. In previous years Mercedes was so dominant everyone just moved aside. Lando drove into Perez today rather unnecessarily. Lando can be quite the punk too, lacks "respect" . Maybe he's changed a little bit since being mugged, I dunno.
You keep repeating the mantra that Mercedes crashed into the Redbull on purpose. It is getting mundane now. No Mercedes has malicously set out to crash into the RedBull like you keep insinuating.


They've got some gray area tech in their plenum,
This is really pushing the tin foil vibes to another level. What evidence do you have of this? Or even clues? For the technical quality of the thread at least present decent argument instead of repeating your rhetoric ad nauseum.
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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 20:15
Did anyone notice that Bottas let Max past too easily? Great number two driver, huh? He should have done the dirty work in sector one, but noooo... Backing up Max? that didn't exist in Bottas' vocabulary. It is times like these when a LOYAL number 2 is needed (George are you listening?). Let's not even talk about the final stops. Bottas with his fastest lap was a blatant statement, in action if not in words, that he is not about to roll over. "Number 2 my bocht!" should be the subtitle of his race.
George need not have to worry. He would have the best No. 2 alongside. :wink:
Hakuna Matata!

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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no team other than Mercedes favoring(equal opportunity) the driver.

last year Bottas was leading in First half and it is his responsibility to keep that lead. Did Mercedes told Bottas to move a side and give Ham WDC? no?

If he was in Ferrari/RB any other team he would not get this respect.

As he is out next year, Mercedes clearly making him as no 2 now to win as it is very close battle.

It is very difficult for RB to win WCC/WDC because their second driver ~1 second behind Max.

You cannot win the WCC and WDC if you develop the car for specific person.

Fulcrum
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:12
GOAT wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:07
PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 17:56

Can easily argue its more like ..
you’ll just have to wait for that 100th win.
8)
I won't be able to celebrate that! You must be crazy. I will get stoned to death in here. lol

Anyway.. I love this track. The atmosphere was awesome. Might be a bit of Covid concern, but if things clear up next year I wouldn't mind visiting.
Proof you don't need a lot of passing to generate a good race. This track must be a blast to drive.

cheeRS
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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Fulcrum wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 07:28
PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:12
GOAT wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:07


you’ll just have to wait for that 100th win.
8)
I won't be able to celebrate that! You must be crazy. I will get stoned to death in here. lol

Anyway.. I love this track. The atmosphere was awesome. Might be a bit of Covid concern, but if things clear up next year I wouldn't mind visiting.
Proof you don't need a lot of passing to generate a good race. This track must be a blast to drive.
Proof? This was Monaco at 1.5 speed. There was no proof of a good race here, unless your only metric is whether Max wins or not. LOL
Human history is the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy.

Fulcrum
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Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

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cheeRS wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 08:01
Fulcrum wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 07:28
PlatinumZealot wrote:
05 Sep 2021, 18:12


I won't be able to celebrate that! You must be crazy. I will get stoned to death in here. lol

Anyway.. I love this track. The atmosphere was awesome. Might be a bit of Covid concern, but if things clear up next year I wouldn't mind visiting.
Proof you don't need a lot of passing to generate a good race. This track must be a blast to drive.
Proof? This was Monaco at 1.5 speed. There was no proof of a good race here, unless your only metric is whether Max wins or not. LOL
I'm not a fan of Verstappen or Hamilton. Requiring the 'correct' result to perceive a 'good' race is the height of fanboism.