2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[alelanza]

...Just because you think small turbo charged engines would be cool, it doesn't mean that people who see the sport differently from you are stupid.
...

Don't get me wrong now, but I think Nelson's 1300 Hp 1985 Brabham-BMW four-banger, intercooler packed with dry-ice for qualification, was xtremely cool. It was odd and strange at the time, just as xotic as we all want Formula One to be.

Yeah, but imagine what they would say nowadays if you told them your engine was only good for one qualy session. I don't think the problem here is the what, rather the how. Plus personally i would hate to have an engine with the massive amounts of turbo lag those had, those guys weren't drivers, they were more like fortunetellers trying to predict when the power would finally kick in. And that's without mentioning the huge teething problems that engine had, though i would probably be going off topic if i delved into that.

[xpensive]

Again, xciting, wassn't it? What is this we have now, a Mercedes engine superior to all, making a bullshit car fast,
while you can't do nothing about it?

[HampusA]

Yeah, but imagine what they would say nowadays if you told them your engine was only good for one qualy session. I don't think the problem here is the what, rather the how. Plus personally i would hate to have an engine with the massive amounts of turbo lag those had, those guys weren't drivers, they were more like fortunetellers trying to predict when the power would finally kick in. And that's without mentioning the huge teething problems that engine had, though i would probably be going off topic if i delved into that.

Keep in mind that many years have passed. There is way more technology these days and i think a 1300 turbocharged engine built today would be able to last as long as one of the V8´s we have today.

Turbo lag would also be a thing of the past. Add 3-4 Turbos or even just 2 where they take care of a certain number of rpm´s instead of both kicking in at the same time.

[HampusA]

Again, xciting, wassn't it? What is this we have now, a Mercedes engine superior to all, making a bullshit car fast,
while you can't do nothing about it?

Well RBR has shown that you can win even with one of the least powerful engines on the grid. Aerodynamics in todays F1 is way more important then if your engine is down 20bhp.

[strad]

Because if F1 does not change its format to reflect the worlds essential energy saving policies, it will begin a steep decline.
Sponsors will soon leave F1 when they recognise the publics changes in attitude.

Well all I can say is that I think that is bullshìt.
True F1 fans aren't going to complain at all...only silly girly cry wolf people would do that.
We don't care if we burn up a little fuel...It will never come close to whats burned by half whats burned up by planes and cargo ships. Sooner or later ya gotta wake up and see that cars AND racing are a drop in the bucket.

[agip]

Well all I can say is that I think that is bullshìt.
True F1 fans aren't going to complain at all...only silly girly cry wolf people would do that.
We don't care if we burn up a little fuel...It will never come close to whats burned by half whats burned up by planes and cargo ships. Sooner or later ya gotta wake up and see that cars AND racing are a drop in the bucket.

And who is going to provide the powetrains, the fans? Tell that story to the engine makers and you'll see what they think.

[noname]

And who is going to provide the powetrains, the fans? Tell that story to the engine makers and you'll see what they think.

In Formula 1, as in every other sport, spectators are most important.
If there would be enough people keen to watch it, and there would be some money to get from them, lack of powertrains will not be an issue.
Whatever the rules would be.

[xpensive]

As usual I agree with strad, if 26 racing cars consumes 10 000 or 8000 litres of petrol over the weekend is rather insignificant,
when comparing to a Boeing 747, which can be filled up with more than 200 000 litres of fuel before take-off.

If 10 000 spectators use their cars to a soccer game, that's surely 30 000 litres there.

Then ther's the symbolic value of course, but I doubt if the average F1 fan care very much.

[alelanza]

Yeah, but imagine what they would say nowadays if you told them your engine was only good for one qualy session. I don't think the problem here is the what, rather the how. Plus personally i would hate to have an engine with the massive amounts of turbo lag those had, those guys weren't drivers, they were more like fortunetellers trying to predict when the power would finally kick in. And that's without mentioning the huge teething problems that engine had, though i would probably be going off topic if i delved into that.

Keep in mind that many years have passed. There is way more technology these days and i think a 1300 turbocharged engine built today would be able to last as long as one of the V8´s we have today.

Turbo lag would also be a thing of the past. Add 3-4 Turbos or even just 2 where they take care of a certain number of rpm´s instead of both kicking in at the same time.

Evidently i wouldn't expect a modern turbo to behave like that. I said what i said just because lately a lot of people seem to be talking about that engine as if it was the second coming, probaby because it has a very visible wikipedia page with the 1400 hp nice number, and no one seems to note that it had many downsides and issues, to the point BMW had to force the Brabham's team hand so that they would start using it in Monaco, 5 races after the first and only time they had used them in a race during the disastrous South African GP, so you had the then reigning world champion bmw powered car being lapped by his team mate, who went on to grab his first win on the good old Cosworth V8. And on the next GP the bmw brabham didn't even make it past qualifying, while the ford made it into the race. And we're talking about an engine they had started testing before the previous season started, so evidently it wasn't an easy ride. And i'm not saying it was a bad engine, of course it achieved great things, but i feel that as with many things from the past people tend to remember only the rosier parts of the tale.
By the same token, if you allowed teams to develop current V8s as they pleased and allow them to have qualy only engines running on whichever exotic fuel coctels they wanted, then 20 years from now you would have blokes talking about the mythical V8s of years past

[Lurk]

As usual I agree with strad, if 26 racing cars consumes 10 000 or 8000 litres of petrol over the weekend is rather insignificant,
when comparing to a Boeing 747, which can be filled up with more than 200 000 litres of fuel before take-off.

If 10 000 spectators use their cars to a soccer game, that's surely 30 000 litres there.

Then ther's the symbolic value of course, but I doubt if the average F1 fan care very much.

Problem is that people that give money to Formula One(understand "people targeted by manufacturers, sponsors and TV ads") are not average F1 fan but regular people who don't think it is insignificant. For them it is just a waist of petrol and Formula One is bad for Earth.
Formula One and motor racing in general is born and grow up during a time when petrol was an endless ressource and green effect was not a concern for regular people. Now it is and to keep the business working, you must please your customers, who are not F1 fans but regular people who sometimes act like sheeps.
I think France is a good example of that. 10 years ago, we don't give a sh*t about that. Now it's all "CO2 is bad, F1 is bad, blablabla" and we now have no driver neither a team nor a damn Grand Prix! A shame for whose organised the first motor race...

Formula One needs to change its image and a direct link to regular road car if they want to survive the 20 next years.
Sure Ferrari will not be happy but I'm sure they will have to drop their 6l V12 sooner or later. 3liter V8 turbo like the F40 coupled to a KERS, is that really bad?

[autogyro]

As usual I agree with strad, if 26 racing cars consumes 10 000 or 8000 litres of petrol over the weekend is rather insignificant,
when comparing to a Boeing 747, which can be filled up with more than 200 000 litres of fuel before take-off.

If 10 000 spectators use their cars to a soccer game, that's surely 30 000 litres there.

Then ther's the symbolic value of course, but I doubt if the average F1 fan care very much.

All the above is correct.
Non of it is relevent to the issue.

[xpensive]

I'm not so sure that the average F1 fan is so concerned about the global warming and peak oil, judging by their own driving habits anyway. I'm not so sure that the typical everyday car-engine is getting smaller and more cost-effective either, would be interesting to see sme statistics on that.

It's easy to confuse journalists' and politicans' views with those of everyday people, political correctness is xtremely influential in comparison to what people really think.

[marcush.]

of course the green idea is a PR coup and nothing else and why should F1 suddenly pave the ways for new technologies into series production ...it has done but if that was really green is debatable (the CF mania swamping into mass production is surely also heated by Formula1 and Motorsport as such using the materials as there was no tomorrow).
But why not giving the wide uninformed masses less frontal area ? I have to say I don´t care if it were 1 ,8 or24 cylinder or 500cc or 5litre engines.They have cut off the 12cylinder ,then 10s ,so what....A amazingly fast thing not making significant engine noise is what we had in the turbo times as well and those were really amazingly impressive things...I cannot get the Turbo cars out of my head blasting along the Hockenheim Forrest straights .The sound was only audible for a very short time then and you saw the car merely as a short flash at 300plus kmh...

[doink]

I am concerned, because the environment impacts my children's future and theirs, too.

The carbon footprint generated by the logistics for a F1 race is enormous in comparison to the fuel used within the race, but that isn't the point here. F1 is the pinnacle of motor racing and it needs to reflect what is happening in the real world. It is an important advert to the world that there needs to be change, we can't carry on as we are.

F1 has been about technological innovation since the start. There is no point in developing something that the real world deems as being obsolete. Doing this sends a signal to the motor industry and the technology developed here will make it's way into road cars eventually and will provide untold savings to the environment.

You have to look at the bigger picture, this is the most important and unselfish development F1 has ever seen, and you really need to try and get your heads around the reasons why.

[marcush.]

talking about footprints F1 is not significant really.
Realistically mankind has started a development a good 100 years ago and failed to acknowledge the consequences and maintained their view fixed on profit making at all cost and i doubt this has changed much till todays the one lucky coincidence being that some sharks have realised that green ideas can be profitable as well ...Will it stop the poles from melting? Obviously it´s already too late to prevent this and we will face the consequences rather sooner than later .It will be a rapidly changing environment and it is yet to be seen if there is place for us or something unimportant like F1 in the scenario what is unfolding right in front of our eyes.