Mercedes GP W02

[ForMuLaOne]

....wait and see. This car will look quite different for sure. Would be just ignorant to believe that this is the final car. You`d have to ignore every statement of this team. And i simply don`t understand why there are so many people talking them down. What`s the reason for it? YOU know as little as we do, but FANS always wish the best for their team or driver. So listening to interviews and simply watching the car really helps you to understand what is going to happen. Anyone who thinks that MB created another mess can do so, but why repeating it again and again? I don`t want to be rude but people who doubt essential changes on this car should ( in my very small opinion as i am VERY optimistic) stop talking until they know better. Because talking things bad without knowing facts is TOTAL rubbish. So how about changing the topic....write some nice stuff about Renault and Williams...they seem to have one hell of a car compared to Mercedes

[Predator]

The new upper plane has already been mentioned, now along with these, is this the new rear wing Ross Brawn was referring to? When the DRS is used, the upper plane opens more than any other car.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Formulaone

There will always be this element until the mods chose to do somthing about it.

Predator
Yes I think this is the new rear wing, as it is markedly different from before. Also, I read on some sites the Mercedes will have a 3 plane front wing ready for the next test(permitting), if not then for Oz. This may have alot to do with Mercedes testing there front tyre grip and suffering with turn in, somthing Gary Anderson picked up on.

However, with a closer look it does show the slots Mercedes added to simulate a 3 plane wing was beneficial to the cars balance and the car was seemingly better over longer runs with it.
Personally I think Mercedes went with last years front wing, tested the tyres and now will lok to add the definitive aero pack they know will benefit the car and help with the tyre behaviour.

If Im wrong crucify me, but those writting off Mercedes and Brawn arent giving the team a chance and are judging them on a workhorse of a car.

[andrew]

Formulaone - so why are the drivers so downbeat then? Surely if there was something amazingly fantastic coming they would be cheerful, but they are downright miserable. Plus the 2011 Merc (car and team statements) so far are a carbon copy of last year.

You'll have to excuse people for being not sharing your faith.

[madly]

[warmasice]

....wait and see. This car will look quite different for sure. Would be just ignorant to believe that this is the final car. You`d have to ignore every statement of this team. And i simply don`t understand why there are so many people talking them down. What`s the reason for it? YOU know as little as we do, but FANS always wish the best for their team or driver. So listening to interviews and simply watching the car really helps you to understand what is going to happen. Anyone who thinks that MB created another mess can do so, but why repeating it again and again? I don`t want to be rude but people who doubt essential changes on this car should ( in my very small opinion as i am VERY optimistic) stop talking until they know better. Because talking things bad without knowing facts is TOTAL rubbish. So how about changing the topic....write some nice stuff about Renault and Williams...they seem to have one hell of a car compared to Mercedes

We are all entitled to our OWN opinions as you are. The drivers have been saying how concerned about the pace they are, and indeed Norbert Haug said that the Mercedes paces is currently outside top ten. So it would be YOU who is the one that seems to ignore every single statement the team is making.

You ask why people are repeating again and again about Mercedes poor speed, well the simple fact is that nobody is repeating themselves. It's just that so may people feel the same way, and people who are as optimistic as you, are few and far between. and after all, forums are here for discussion. If everyone was to write about nice stuff, this website would be really boring!.. remember, only bad news sells!

But we are all just being realistic here, personally i want them to do well, just really disapointed that its looking like another failed year for them. I really want to see them do well, including Schumacher, but its looking like he never will win another title (hope im wrong).

[mep]

Let's rather talk about the wheelbase because I think we can take this as a given.
What pros and cons are there for a short or long wheelbase?
If we consider that the weight balance is fixed this year might there be a advantage by a short wheelbase to reduce effects of a unfitting weight balance?

[Onch]

Given the fixed weight distribution, the shorter car will show greater load transfer to rear/front wheels for a given acceleration/deceleration (weight, cog height being equal). Same goes for yaw acceleration during corner entry and exit I believe.
Wheelbase difference with regards to the other cars is only a few %, I am not sure this can cause the Pirellis to suffer?

Shorter car also has less surface for producing downforce, obviously.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Haugs comments were CLEAR.

And they were the same comments Brawn Schumacher and Rosberg have said since Valencia.

We are behind, and we knew we would be. Not even the top 10 at present but, the first 3 tests we have been concentrating on tyres, KERS and some minor aero work. We have a much changed pack coming for the last test, we will then look to push our performance envelope.

So what can we deduce from what the man is saying?

Unless the whole team are talking out their anus (and I think a 7 time champ, Brawn, Haug etc have a tad more respect than most out there) then they ought to be given the benefit of the doubt. Unless your a total troll and choose to dismiss everything the team has uttered this, go right ahead and keep trolling, the big if Mercedes wins a race this year you will look like idiots.

[ForMuLaOne]

Ok, here`s my opinion about the changes.

1. Despite having one of the biggest side pot air intake ( don`t know if this expression is right ) they STILL need to remove the covers on top.

2. The thermal issues also occure around the exhaust system.


now if you watch closely at THE PICTURE BELOW where you can actually look inside the sidepots ( from the front) you always see some carbon fibre in the middle of it. It looks like a splitter or something. So what i think ( or hope, just to calm down any doubters ) is that the air intake is actually as half as big as it seems to be. The lower half is quite useless, that`s why they needed to cut slices out of the body work at the very rear. It could also explain the slightly burnt bodywork. Because the air blows into the bodywork there is some sort of pressure, they try to get rid of it by cutting the slices, but it does not work.

What i would say is: Air intake will be as half as big as it is right now. There won`t be any slices in the bodywork ( or less). The exhaust could look like the RB solution.

Please let`s just deal with the technical aspect. Wether it is my hope or not. I just would like to hear if anybody thinks to the same direction.

[ForMuLaOne]

You can see it in this picture....the intake would be as big as the one on BGP001....

[red300zx99]

For a given corner radius the shorter the wheelbase the less steering angle that is needed to navigate the turn. The mechanical downfall is usually stability under braking. You'll accelerate in a straight line faster as the load transfer to the rear wheels is greater.

I'm not convinced the Merc is a dog of a car, those time's on the long stints worry me. As a Ferrari fan this is the car I fear the most.

[pipex]

Could it be possible that this car is just a hack of the MGP W01 to comply with the new rules and test the new gearbox/KERS/whatever? Maybe it is not really the real car (I know, I know, I'm very optimistic) We already have seen a car with very few testing, the BGP001. Old fox Ross Brawn? Sorry for the noise...

[marcush.]

The talk of Brawn is very much in contrast to the product we see:he was talking about level of engineering ,invention taking risks etc and frankly admitted the w01 lacked in these areas and came out as much too conservative and lacking in all areas.
With this statement given it does not make any sense to come up with something as ordinary as the w02 ,right?Apart drom pullrod and the high nose which are not inventive but just catching up with the current trends we have not seen anything inventive before the last test.
The first original thing that appeared is in fact the small moving flap on the rearwing ..sort of ..Pat Symonds already wrote about this in last months Racetechmag...it´s nothing all the others would not as well have thought of.
I still think we are going to see something special during the next test.mind you the others have shown spectacular things already and Mercedes needs to top this if they want to win .
Mclaren did not have the luxury to be able to build on their last years work doing a refinement ...as the thing was not stste of the art.So to build a basic car and evaluate the tyre characteristics first and then add the innovations is nothing else basically than redbull or ferrari does with the little difference that these stay with their concept.

[Raptor22]

The talk of Brawn is very much in contrast to the product we see:he was talking about level of engineering ,invention taking risks etc and frankly admitted the w01 lacked in these areas and came out as much too conservative and lacking in all areas.
With this statement given it does not make any sense to come up with something as ordinary as the w02 ,right?Apart drom pullrod and the high nose which are not inventive but just catching up with the current trends we have not seen anything inventive before the last test.
The first original thing that appeared is in fact the small moving flap on the rearwing ..sort of ..Pat Symonds already wrote about this in last months Racetechmag...it´s nothing all the others would not as well have thought of.
I still think we are going to see something special during the next test.mind you the others have shown spectacular things already and Mercedes needs to top this if they want to win .
Mclaren did not have the luxury to be able to build on their last years work doing a refinement ...as the thing was not stste of the art.So to build a basic car and evaluate the tyre characteristics first and then add the innovations is nothing else basically than redbull or ferrari does with the little difference that these stay with their concept.

Correct, RedBull and Ferrari have maintained their concept from last year and added in the KERS and the ARW.

I'm not sure McLaren have ditched last years concept completely, 25 was a great car and remained in contention for the WDC throughout the season. McLaren dropped the ball a few times tactically and Lewis made a hash of thing smore than once.

As for Mercedes, liek I said here and in the McLaren thread, the biggest change is the tyres. Merc had major problems with managing the tyres last year. W01 is of no use to the this year and hence the produced a simple W02 to first establish a baseline for the tyres. This is amjor issue even i they stared development on the car early, they could only really fix suspension geometry and the resulting aero package once they has tested the tyres to compare real world performance to the information Pirelli gave them. They could effectively only finalise their design in November 2010. This is pretty late in the day but thats the hand they dealt themselves by producing that dog called W01.
red Bull Ferrari, McLaren and even Renault had packages that behaved well on the Bridgestones. Thyey may have laced in other area but Mercedes are the only top team starting from a clean slate. Renault now Lotus Renault could carry over good tyre use characteristics, Mercedes could not. The W02 is a greenfield project, the rest are all brown field.


I understand the methology Mercedes are using. The question is will the definative version by a competitive car. I don't know and neither does Mercedes quite frankly since they don't reall y know hwere the others are either

The short wheel base would certainly exaggerate any poor tyre usage of the chassis and suspension geometry. If they have a good tyre model they may be able to correct for the different scrub rate a longer wheelbase would offer.

Only time will tell