2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Hammerfist]

Hamilton: Mercedes F1 had to remove ’90 points of downforce’ to control bouncing on W13
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/03/ ... -bouncing/

Thats old news. Hamilton spoke about depowering the car in 22’. That is what he was referring to. I think theyve also had to do this in jeddah, hence the poor showing in sector 1 there.

[Tomsky]

The fact is, data that the Mercedes has a clear problem of reliability linked to the power unit. In a long time, about a month ago, we mentioned a fact. Ci am referring to the allocation of some internal parts hidden under the bodywork, which, considering the new streamlined form, fail to provide the necessary range of optimal temperature. The sum of these factors does not allow to use always full, however, the good qualities of the PU M15 And in the race, with drivers who are being forced to limit the performance from the engine of the Mercedes W15.

We are working on, in Brixworth, because it appeared that the headache in question is solvable in the short term. The difficulties that once zeroed, bearing in mind the future package updates that should be presented during the month of April, would allow the car to black and grey to optimize the efficiency and close a large part of the new from the summit suffered in this first part of the championship. Pending further information, this is the current state of things.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2024 ... m15-e.html

[Chuckjr]

Link doesn't work.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/03/ ... -bouncing/

My god the irony is so thick in Ham’s words. He claims to be inspired by their “not giving up”, yet he himself bailed on the team and signed with a rival before this season even started. SMH. What a coward.

“ So every time we take one or two sets forward, it’d take five back. It’s been hugely frustrating, I think, for the engineers.

“But I think what’s been inspiring is that they’ve just not given up. They’re continuing to show up every day and give it their best and that’s all you can ever ask.”

[Luscion]

Link doesn't work.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/03/ ... -bouncing/

My god the irony is so thick in Ham’s words. He claims to be inspired by their “not giving up”, yet he himself bailed on the team and signed with a rival before this season even started. SMH. What a coward.

Hamilton wanted a longer contract with Merc but Toto only offered a 1 + 1 contract, he talked about it himself. That meant Lewis would potentially be without a seat for the new regs with all the top teams occupied, Fred and Elkann came knocking at the right time and from reports offered a lot more than Merc were willing to give Lewis overall and this was arguably an opportunity he'd never get again in his career. I'm not saying it didn't play a role but it's a lot more than just leaving because Merc aren't winning right now

[mythr-ran-dire]

Reading this team thread the last few days has been an exercise in exasperation. What is the point of debating well established facts that are known to those of us watching the sport since before Mercedes’s run of success?

Regardless of what arguments you are trying to make, there is a point where you have to recognize when a topic has run its course, especially when no one is swayed against their original opinion.

The bottom line is, whatever advantages Mercedes had cultivated are no longer sufficient ingredients for success with the current regulations. Either they will continue to falter or they will come out of this rut. Let us please close the matter and look forward to Japan.

[PlatinumZealot]

Link doesn't work.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/03/ ... -bouncing/

My god the irony is so thick in Ham’s words. He claims to be inspired by their “not giving up”, yet he himself bailed on the team and signed with a rival before this season even started. SMH. What a coward.

“ So every time we take one or two sets forward, it’d take five back. It’s been hugely frustrating, I think, for the engineers.

“But I think what’s been inspiring is that they’ve just not given up. They’re continuing to show up every day and give it their best and that’s all you can ever ask.”

Bailed on what? He has been there for nearly 12 seasons! He owes Mercedes nothing. Time to move on to greener pastures and give someone else a chance.

[Tomsky]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/is-m ... 1-decline/

[Tomsky]

The journalist Ralf Bach, deep knowledge of the dynamics of the paddock, has then given as to almost certain the goodbye at the end of the season to Helmut Marko. This will very likely also the transfer of Max Verstappen to Mercedes, given that the two sides “you are talking more and more intensely,” and that the Dutch seem determined to take advantage of the ‘clause Marko’ of his contract.
Wolff also, try Waché
F1 Insider also confirmed the offer of Aston Martin and Adrian Newey, because “in the route with Horner”, as bait to convince Max Verstappen. The Dutch champion and his entourage, however, they would feel “more important to the chief engineer Pierre Waché“. And in this sense it is not at all random that Mercedes is “talking with him” for a transfer to the Silver Arrows.
https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-new ... enson-audi

[bluechris]

The journalist Ralf Bach, deep knowledge of the dynamics of the paddock, has then given as to almost certain the goodbye at the end of the season to Helmut Marko. This will very likely also the transfer of Max Verstappen to Mercedes, given that the two sides “you are talking more and more intensely,” and that the Dutch seem determined to take advantage of the ‘clause Marko’ of his contract.
Wolff also, try Waché
F1 Insider also confirmed the offer of Aston Martin and Adrian Newey, because “in the route with Horner”, as bait to convince Max Verstappen. The Dutch champion and his entourage, however, they would feel “more important to the chief engineer Pierre Waché“. And in this sense it is not at all random that Mercedes is “talking with him” for a transfer to the Silver Arrows.
https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-new ... enson-audi

Honestly there isn't either 1% of possibility of MAX to go to MB to drive this car like it is now. Hamilton didn't jump the ship for fun reasons.

[Venturiation]

Link doesn't work.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/03/ ... -bouncing/

My god the irony is so thick in Ham’s words. He claims to be inspired by their “not giving up”, yet he himself bailed on the team and signed with a rival before this season even started. SMH. What a coward.

“ So every time we take one or two sets forward, it’d take five back. It’s been hugely frustrating, I think, for the engineers.

“But I think what’s been inspiring is that they’ve just not given up. They’re continuing to show up every day and give it their best and that’s all you can ever ask.”

The irony is from you
The team abandoned him because they wanted to replace him with antonelli by not giving him a contract
Anyone in hamilton position would have left before 2025 and go at Ferrari for 2024

[Chuckjr]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/03/ ... -bouncing/

My god the irony is so thick in Ham’s words. He claims to be inspired by their “not giving up”, yet he himself bailed on the team and signed with a rival before this season even started. SMH. What a coward.

“ So every time we take one or two sets forward, it’d take five back. It’s been hugely frustrating, I think, for the engineers.

“But I think what’s been inspiring is that they’ve just not given up. They’re continuing to show up every day and give it their best and that’s all you can ever ask.”

The irony is from you
The team abandoned him because they wanted to replace him with antonelli by not giving him a contract
Anyone in hamilton position would have left before 2025 and go at Ferrari for 2024

You’re assuming that as contract details and future actions within a team are private. In fact it’s looking less and less like Antonelli will be at Merc in 2025.

How is the irony with me when Ham is the one bailing on the team when he had his moment to stay and see through the struggle? Be there for the team that was there for him, handing him a car he could not lose in for almost a decade. Then he says how proud he is of them for staying with it and continuing to fight, while at the same time leaving the team for a rival. What part of that makes me ironic? He’s the one who is abandoning ship when the going gets tough. It’s what a coward does and it’s why I called him out on it.

And no, not everyone in his position would bail. Guys with character and integrity would dig in deeper and try harder for the team that served them so well for so long to see them back to competitiveness. Stick it out and be a hero to help bring them back. Nope. Ham covertly uses an exit clause to grab another guys seat (who quite frankly deserves to stay at Ferrari) to try to force another title. This is next level greed. Disgusting behavior afaic. I hope CS beats CL just to render further how messed up this whole situation is.

[F1Krof]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/is-m ... 1-decline/

"BUT A MERCEDES RECOVERY NO LONGER FEELS INEVITABLE" <--- perfect subtitle. Exactly how I feel.

[atanatizante]

Thanks for your answer, but still I don't have a clear understanding of what do you mean by peak downforce.

What I understood from peak-downforce is that, imagining a plot where on x axis I have speed (and other variables maybe like ride height, yaw conditions, temp etc), y axis is the downforce, and the maximum point of the graph (related to x axis) is the peak (the max value) and the area under the curve is available downforce. Imagining in a lap, peak value is where the maximum downforce I am obtaining during the lap, and the available downforce is the value I get on average during the lap. (you can change the lap variable with ride height, temp etc.)

So you are suggesting that they have optimised the peak value instead of the area under the curve? This sounds like a very-very foolish way to optimise performance if they did that.

Something like that. Peak downforce is usually achieved at the lowest ride height (now that there's basically no rake when cars are running), 0 yaw, 0 roll, no steering angle. Basically running on the straight. But corners aren't straights and neither are kerbs, bumps and any other running condition - and all of those mean a certain loss compared to peak downforce.

Peaky cars have high DF values in a very narrow operating window and this typically means you always have a more or less compromised setup. At worst you have a snappy car which has huge losses in certain corners/conditions, typically losing diffuser load and thus having oversteer snaps. W15 has some issues with rear end at high speed, for example, so it's still not quite well balanced, but it doesn't seem to be too peaky, just lacks some floor performance. The problem there is that W15 still had high speed bouncing in Jeddah, even in corners, which means their floor downforce is compromised if they go too low.

On the other hand, W15 treats the tyres well and doesn't look stiffer or softer than Top 3 cars, so in my view suspension is good enough and their troubles are completely aero related. They need more floor downforce and they need to find an aerodynamic solution for bouncing.

Seeing that W15 is bottoming and snap oversteers in the high-speed section at Jeddah it means that they lack understanding about at least these areas:

- how to seal the floor edges (or should I say Venturi tunnels) when the car is in an unsettled state, as Andrea Stela was saying
- how to design/setup a downforce limiter/staller switch in order to get rid of the peak downforce when the proposing effect is occurring (maybe the steps/kicks in the floor are responsible for that thing?)
- how to design a stiff suspension and damper setup that need to be enough compliant to run smoothly over the bumps and kerbs and not unsettle the car (double rate suspension system?)

On the same note could someone with better knowledge enlighten me on how they setup the car in qualy to not proposing and wearing the plank, knowing that at the beginning of the race is the heaviest in the whole weekend, but furthermore having a lower ride height to generate enough downforce levels not to step out the rear of the car, something that W15 is facing at the present?

[MachineCo.]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/is-m ... 1-decline/

"BUT A MERCEDES RECOVERY NO LONGER FEELS INEVITABLE" <--- perfect subtitle. Exactly how I feel.

A contract for 1 year + an option could be viewed as lack of confidence. In this case, he exorcized an option that, according to reports, was forced on him.
No irony. Could be Merc forced his hand, especially if they were openly courting Antonelli.

Sorry. Meant to respond to post above this. It's been awhile.

[Mansell89]

Toto is attending Suzuka now having originally planned not to- any pointers to a significant upgrade package weekend for them, or am I reading too far between the lines?

Secondly- does anyone think the departure of David Sanchez from McL may open a door for him at Merc ahead of 2026?