Red Bull RB18

[S D]

Sky Germany just reported that the "fluid" Verstappen mentioned was FUEL. They did not say where this information comes from, but they are well informed usually. So Verstappens car seemed to have a fuel-leak. The problem probably was the fuel line that connects the fuel tank with the high pressure pump on top of the engine, which takes the fuel pressure for the direct injection system.
The word is that E10 damages this fuel line.

It did not seem 'vigorous' enough to be fuel burning. Then again, it may have been a small amount that set fire to something else then stopped with the engine

What I found odd, on the onboard from Verstappen, in the corner before he smelt someting he reported he lost the rear
out off nowhere. The braking went strange, that could point to the mgu-k? Pherhaps fuel/fire damaged the mgu-k.

If he is leaking fuel and that flow leaks onto the rear tires then could this not cause him to loose traction on the rear?

[Stu]

I think that they do.
Think back to the first race of the Hybrid era, there was all of the concern about the reliability of the FIA flow sensor, Red Bull had a disqualification due to the FIA detecting that they had exceeded the fuel usage; Red Bull argued it with data from their own sensors (and calculated usage from injectors).
It would make sense for the software to require flow and pressure to operate the injectors accurately. If they could see a drop in pressure without a drop in flow, alarm bells should ring!!!

Perhaps the leak happened prior to the first sensor measurement.

I think that the first FIA sensor is inside the fuel tank

[godlameroso]

Some sources claim the RB18 is more efficient aerodynamically than the Ferrari, but the Ferrari gets more load from its rear wing. The only difference I see between the RB18 and the Ferrari rear wing that could affect its performance is the wing tip.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPtYfiMXIAE ... me=900x900 Ferrari and Alpine have a smoother radius at the tip, Mercedes made their radius really thick, where the RB18 has a more pointed fold, possibly to encourage upwash.

In Jeddah they used a more rounded fold at the leading edge.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOnOORbXMAU ... ame=medium

IMHO in both cases the bottom flap is higher profile on the Ferrari and the top flap is lower profile due to the spoon shape, it's super evident when compared to the Alpine but it's easy to see even against the RedBull.

The end result is that DRS activation doesn't benefit Ferrari as much as it does the other teams.

You catch my drift?

[AR3-GP]

Cant' be, second sensor is encrypted and only fia can decrypt it's signal. This was done to prevent teams from injecting fuel in between measuring points (2200 hz) thus bypassing 100 kg/h restriction.

Two flow rate sensors are required by the FIA (one encrypted, one not), but that does stop anyone from using a 3rd flow rate sensor which produces an unencrypted signal. The sensor itself is ultrasonic based so contributes no additional pumping losses other than those associated with it's length.

RB have claimed they detected fuel loss, and I don't believe there is any way they could have obtained this unless they observed a discrepancy in flow rates between two different points in the fuel line.

Highly unlikely any team would voluntarily run one more sensor just as a redundancy. Too many problems for too little gain.

It's not for redundancy. It's for leak detection. An additional sensor doesn't add complexity. They are ultrasonic (non-invasive). Even if they fail, they don't impact the performance of the fuel line.

Knowing that fuel is leaking is a pretty significant gain in understanding as to whether your car will burn to the ground or not...

[dialtone]

Some sources claim the RB18 is more efficient aerodynamically than the Ferrari, but the Ferrari gets more load from its rear wing. The only difference I see between the RB18 and the Ferrari rear wing that could affect its performance is the wing tip.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPtYfiMXIAE ... me=900x900 Ferrari and Alpine have a smoother radius at the tip, Mercedes made their radius really thick, where the RB18 has a more pointed fold, possibly to encourage upwash.

In Jeddah they used a more rounded fold at the leading edge.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOnOORbXMAU ... ame=medium

IMHO in both cases the bottom flap is higher profile on the Ferrari and the top flap is lower profile due to the spoon shape, it's super evident when compared to the Alpine but it's easy to see even against the RedBull.

The end result is that DRS activation doesn't benefit Ferrari as much as it does the other teams.

You catch my drift?

https://pic8.co/sh/JbefPE.jpg

http://properfabrications.com/assets/im ... f165e.jpeg

Yes I did, but I think it's less influential than the shape of the flap itself. The Ferrari DRS open has a very weird shape itself with the side tips flaring up and out, compared to the other teams that instead have an almost flat open DRS. I think this is more influential to drag than the shape of the corners.

[dialtone]

Look at this:





Sorry for the angle but it almost looks like the Ferrari DRS has tips above the main flap, while the RedBull one is kinda flat. It's got to count for something.

[Vanja #66]

You catch my drift?

https://pic8.co/sh/JbefPE.jpg

http://properfabrications.com/assets/im ... f165e.jpeg

You are not completely wrong, but the connection you see there is not as significant as you think it is. With endplates curving inward by rules, teams need to work extensively on interference drag and optimisation. Intake trumpet has the same role, with geometry optimized for least interference and zero turbulence during suction.

Form drag (coming solely from the shape and size of an object) is the biggest influence in motorsport, especially with rear wings. Interference drag is now more significant than it was before, but it's not the most detrimental, form drag is.

[vorticism]

Good image, dialtone. That is interesting. I was thinking the Merc bulged top flap might be producing extra lift when open, but this upturned Ferrari flap surely does. Perhaps it enhances the DRS effect by providing more positive lift. Plus a counter rotating vortex to mess with the wake, ha. (speculatively)

Interference drag is now more significant than it was before, but it's not the most detrimental, form drag is.

I'd think the opposite given the simplicity and continuity of surfaces compared to last year.

[PlatinumZealot]

Look at this:

https://i.postimg.cc/HsLwB3zS/cervantes ... thymia.png

https://i.postimg.cc/kMsNQLQ6/abigeat-p ... xvirus.png

Sorry for the angle but it almost looks like the Ferrari DRS has tips above the main flap, while the RedBull one is kinda flat. It's got to count for something.

Good observation. It is a trade-off. The more cambered and swept flap will help for better downforce but when it opens by DRS you will get that wing tip look of Ferrari. Likely more drag too compared to RedBull when DRS is active.

[bonjon1979]

This is a list of parts red bull replaced in parc ferme after qualifying

Car 01:

Auxiliary radiator

LHS deflector

Fuel cell loom

Clutch actuator

Gearbox hydraulic system and actuators

Clutch break out box

Parameter changes associated with clutch actuator and gearbox hydraulic system replacement

Car 11:

Auxiliary radiator

Any thoughts?

[Vanja #66]

I'd think the opposite given the simplicity and continuity of surfaces compared to last year.

Continuity helps, but proximity of the endplate at an acute angle really doesn't.

[godlameroso]

You catch my drift?

https://pic8.co/sh/JbefPE.jpg

http://properfabrications.com/assets/im ... f165e.jpeg

You are not completely wrong, but the connection you see there is not as significant as you think it is. With endplates curving inward by rules, teams need to work extensively on interference drag and optimisation. Intake trumpet has the same role, with geometry optimized for least interference and zero turbulence during suction.

Form drag (coming solely from the shape and size of an object) is the biggest influence in motorsport, especially with rear wings. Interference drag is now more significant than it was before, but it's not the most detrimental, form drag is.

What if you want to get more performance from the rear wing at lower speeds? That's where this car is having the most problems relative to the Ferrari.

[Alexf1]

It did not seem 'vigorous' enough to be fuel burning. Then again, it may have been a small amount that set fire to something else then stopped with the engine

What I found odd, on the onboard from Verstappen, in the corner before he smelt someting he reported he lost the rear
out off nowhere. The braking went strange, that could point to the mgu-k? Pherhaps fuel/fire damaged the mgu-k.

If he is leaking fuel and that flow leaks onto the rear tires then could this not cause him to loose traction on the rear?

I've been looking at the onboards too, thanks Juzh, and something strikes me: He was firmly told the corner before he lost the rear to change to strat 8. My idea is that this is a lower strat than he was in because he recorded much higher top speeds on lap 37 compared to the laps before and lap 38 (lap 37 was when he heard Checo was now the car behind, he suddenly went 0.7s faster than any lap he had done up until then).

My suspicion therefore is that the higher strat use was just enough to cause a leakage due to vibrations or even MGU-K (over)heating on a car that already had multiple fuel and hydraulic system fixes in parc fermee after qualifying. Even Max said after the race they had doubts before the race whether they would be able to finish it.

[vorticism]

Why is there a hydraulic line connected to the springboard? Ignore the yellow arrows, look above the SS watermark.

[wowgr8]

Look at this:

https://i.postimg.cc/HsLwB3zS/cervantes ... thymia.png

https://i.postimg.cc/kMsNQLQ6/abigeat-p ... xvirus.png

Sorry for the angle but it almost looks like the Ferrari DRS has tips above the main flap, while the RedBull one is kinda flat. It's got to count for something.

Am I wrong in thinking that Ferrari flap could be more susceptible to a flap/actuator failure à la Ericsson Italy 2018