Red Bull RB18

[TNTHead]

Sky Germany just reported that the "fluid" Verstappen mentioned was FUEL. They did not say where this information comes from, but they are well informed usually. So Verstappens car seemed to have a fuel-leak. The problem probably was the fuel line that connects the fuel tank with the high pressure pump on top of the engine, which takes the fuel pressure for the direct injection system.
The word is that E10 damages this fuel line.

Well in that case either there is some very agressive chemical addiditive in the ExxonMobile/Honda fuel spec or the material selection for ethanol based fuel was poorly done. Second explanation seems unlikely. Third option failure due to vibration/fatigue?

[AR3-GP]

Also, weight distribution is measured on corner weights, not a knife edge. Each tire is weighed, then the weights are tallied up. Front axle has to weigh ~5% less than the rear, that's all, COG can be changed because as far as the corner scales are concerned, the COG is the tire contact patch.

The "corner weight" is a direct function of the X-distance between the CoG and the resultant force (pressure*area) at the tire contact patch. "Axles" don't matter. As soon as the CoG moves in the x-dimension, the weight distribution measured at the contact patch changes.

Does it? How come short people can weigh just as much as tall people?

Again, cars are 3d, what you say works only in 1 dimension, it breaks down the second you add an extra degree of freedom.

In order to determine the COG using math you have to do the following.

You said:

COG can be changed because as far as the corner scales are concerned, the COG is the tire contact patch.

When CoG moves fore and aft (X-dimension), the weight distribution will change (away from the regulation). That's all I claim. If CoG moves laterally (Y coordinate) or vertically (Z coordinate), it will not violate the FIA regulation.

[Mulman]

Sky Germany just reported that the "fluid" Verstappen mentioned was FUEL. They did not say where this information comes from, but they are well informed usually. So Verstappens car seemed to have a fuel-leak. The problem probably was the fuel line that connects the fuel tank with the high pressure pump on top of the engine, which takes the fuel pressure for the direct injection system.
The word is that E10 damages this fuel line.

It did not seem 'vigorous' enough to be fuel burning. Then again, it may have been a small amount that set fire to something else then stopped with the engine

What I found odd, on the onboard from Verstappen, in the corner before he smelt someting he reported he lost the rear
out off nowhere. The braking went strange, that could point to the mgu-k? Pherhaps fuel/fire damaged the mgu-k.

[Mattchu]

I wonder how many of these F1 cars would be 50/50 weight wise if they were cut directly down the middle. You`d think the teams would want a pretty even split left to right.

Going back to the liquid Max said was sloshing around (or something similar)...that`s actually pretty scary stuff if it was infact fuel and something that possibly needs looking into with regards safety. Should fuel (if it was) be able to get into the cockpit and potentially soak the driver that easy!

Hopefully it was just something like the water bottle broke...

[godlameroso]

The "corner weight" is a direct function of the X-distance between the CoG and the resultant force (pressure*area) at the tire contact patch. "Axles" don't matter. As soon as the CoG moves in the x-dimension, the weight distribution measured at the contact patch changes.

Does it? How come short people can weigh just as much as tall people?

Again, cars are 3d, what you say works only in 1 dimension, it breaks down the second you add an extra degree of freedom.

In order to determine the COG using math you have to do the following.

You said:

COG can be changed because as far as the corner scales are concerned, the COG is the tire contact patch.

When CoG moves fore and aft (X-dimension), the weight distribution will change (away from the regulation). That's all I claim. If CoG moves laterally (Y coordinate) or vertically (Z coordinate), it will not violate the FIA regulation.

Ok, I get what you were saying, it seems I was talking past you and I apologize.

[Big Tea]

I wonder how many of these F1 cars would be 50/50 weight wise if they were cut directly down the middle. You`d think the teams would want a pretty even split left to right.

Going back to the liquid Max said was sloshing around (or something similar)...that`s actually pretty scary stuff if it was infact fuel and something that possibly needs looking into with regards safety. Should fuel (if it was) be able to get into the cockpit and potentially soak the driver that easy!

Hopefully it was just something like the water bottle broke...

I would imaging there would be detector for if the feed rate was way too high, as in a lost pipe, and the system would shut off. If the leakage was below the maximum flow rate though it may not detect it.

Max was told to shut the engine off, so they know in the shed that something was wrong.

[AR3-GP]

I wonder how many of these F1 cars would be 50/50 weight wise if they were cut directly down the middle. You`d think the teams would want a pretty even split left to right.

Going back to the liquid Max said was sloshing around (or something similar)...that`s actually pretty scary stuff if it was infact fuel and something that possibly needs looking into with regards safety. Should fuel (if it was) be able to get into the cockpit and potentially soak the driver that easy!

Hopefully it was just something like the water bottle broke...

I would imaging there would be detector for if the feed rate was way too high, as in a lost pipe, and the system would shut off. If the leakage was below the maximum flow rate though it may not detect it.

Max was told to shut the engine off, so they know in the shed that something was wrong.

Two flow rate sensors. If they are mismatched, there is a leak between them.

[Andi76]

I wonder how many of these F1 cars would be 50/50 weight wise if they were cut directly down the middle. You`d think the teams would want a pretty even split left to right.

Going back to the liquid Max said was sloshing around (or something similar)...that`s actually pretty scary stuff if it was infact fuel and something that possibly needs looking into with regards safety. Should fuel (if it was) be able to get into the cockpit and potentially soak the driver that easy!

Hopefully it was just something like the water bottle broke...

Every circuit racing car usually aims for a weight distribution(left to right) of 50%,(centerline of the car) so the wheels on each side are evenly loaded. This gets ensured by the positioning of the wheels and other components or offsetting small components. Even more important is that the height of that weight is as low down as possible. This produces less roll when cornering and there is less risk of adversely affecting the inclination(camber) of the wheels and loose tyre grip.

The water bottle breaking would not have caused Max to retire and there would also be no need for a fire extinguisher. There were bladders on the paintwork again. A clear sign of a small fire under the bodywork. So the reason of a fuel line being the problem sounds reasonable.

[Juzh]

I wonder how many of these F1 cars would be 50/50 weight wise if they were cut directly down the middle. You`d think the teams would want a pretty even split left to right.

Going back to the liquid Max said was sloshing around (or something similar)...that`s actually pretty scary stuff if it was infact fuel and something that possibly needs looking into with regards safety. Should fuel (if it was) be able to get into the cockpit and potentially soak the driver that easy!

Hopefully it was just something like the water bottle broke...

I would imaging there would be detector for if the feed rate was way too high, as in a lost pipe, and the system would shut off. If the leakage was below the maximum flow rate though it may not detect it.

Max was told to shut the engine off, so they know in the shed that something was wrong.

Two flow rate sensors. If they are mismatched, there is a leak between them.

Cant' be, second sensor is encrypted and only fia can decrypt it's signal. This was done to prevent teams from injecting fuel in between measuring points (2200 hz) thus bypassing 100 kg/h restriction.

[AR3-GP]

I would imaging there would be detector for if the feed rate was way too high, as in a lost pipe, and the system would shut off. If the leakage was below the maximum flow rate though it may not detect it.

Max was told to shut the engine off, so they know in the shed that something was wrong.

Two flow rate sensors. If they are mismatched, there is a leak between them.

Cant' be, second sensor is encrypted and only fia can decrypt it's signal. This was done to prevent teams from injecting fuel in between measuring points (2200 hz) thus bypassing 100 kg/h restriction.

Two flow rate sensors are required by the FIA (one encrypted, one not), but that does stop anyone from using a 3rd flow rate sensor which produces an unencrypted signal. The sensor itself is ultrasonic based so contributes no additional pumping losses other than those associated with it's length.

RB have claimed they detected fuel loss, and I don't believe there is any way they could have obtained this unless they observed a discrepancy in flow rates between two different points in the fuel line.

[Juzh]

Two flow rate sensors. If they are mismatched, there is a leak between them.

Cant' be, second sensor is encrypted and only fia can decrypt it's signal. This was done to prevent teams from injecting fuel in between measuring points (2200 hz) thus bypassing 100 kg/h restriction.

Two flow rate sensors are required by the FIA (one encrypted, one not), but that does stop anyone from using a 3rd flow rate sensor which produces an unencrypted signal. The sensor itself is ultrasonic based so contributes no additional pumping losses other than those associated with it's length.

RB have claimed they detected fuel loss, and I don't believe there is any way they could have obtained this unless they observed a discrepancy in flow rates between two different points in the fuel line.

Highly unlikely any team would voluntarily run one more sensor just as a redundancy. Too many problems for too little gain.

[Stu]

I think that they do.
Think back to the first race of the Hybrid era, there was all of the concern about the reliability of the FIA flow sensor, Red Bull had a disqualification due to the FIA detecting that they had exceeded the fuel usage; Red Bull argued it with data from their own sensors (and calculated usage from injectors).
It would make sense for the software to require flow and pressure to operate the injectors accurately. If they could see a drop in pressure without a drop in flow, alarm bells should ring!!!

[godlameroso]

Some sources claim the RB18 is more efficient aerodynamically than the Ferrari, but the Ferrari gets more load from its rear wing. The only difference I see between the RB18 and the Ferrari rear wing that could affect its performance is the wing tip.

Ferrari and Alpine have a smoother radius at the tip, Mercedes made their radius really thick, where the RB18 has a more pointed fold, possibly to encourage upwash.

In Jeddah they used a more rounded fold at the leading edge.

[dialtone]

Some sources claim the RB18 is more efficient aerodynamically than the Ferrari, but the Ferrari gets more load from its rear wing. The only difference I see between the RB18 and the Ferrari rear wing that could affect its performance is the wing tip.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPtYfiMXIAE ... me=900x900 Ferrari and Alpine have a smoother radius at the tip, Mercedes made their radius really thick, where the RB18 has a more pointed fold, possibly to encourage upwash.

In Jeddah they used a more rounded fold at the leading edge.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOnOORbXMAU ... ame=medium

IMHO in both cases the bottom flap is higher profile on the Ferrari and the top flap is lower profile due to the spoon shape, it's super evident when compared to the Alpine but it's easy to see even against the RedBull.

The end result is that DRS activation doesn't benefit Ferrari as much as it does the other teams.

[S D]

I think that they do.
Think back to the first race of the Hybrid era, there was all of the concern about the reliability of the FIA flow sensor, Red Bull had a disqualification due to the FIA detecting that they had exceeded the fuel usage; Red Bull argued it with data from their own sensors (and calculated usage from injectors).
It would make sense for the software to require flow and pressure to operate the injectors accurately. If they could see a drop in pressure without a drop in flow, alarm bells should ring!!!

Perhaps the leak happened prior to the first sensor measurement.