2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Balalu
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Feels good to be dissapointed for being second..... haha.. Memories of the great past.

Would love to see a chrome papaya livery next year. Or white and papaya similair to the iconic white/red Senna era McLaren.
"I showed him [with my hands] and said: I have bigger balls!” - Mika Hakkinen

Mostlyeels
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Mansell89 wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:19
Comments from Lando Norris and Andrea Stella via BBC website following quali:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66144514
...

Andrea Stella:

The poor winter led to technical director James Key leaving the team and a restructure of McLaren's design department. And Stella singled out aerodynamics lead Peter Prodromou, brought back into front-line design after years on the side projects, for praise.
PP's been working on "side projects" for "years"? Is this just a different way of saying "not the aero lead," or is it inacccurate reporting, or actually the case?

Toby B
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Joined: 09 Jul 2023, 02:43

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Do forum folk think that McLaren's..mmm.. relatively large upgrade pack over recent weeks coupled with the performance gains that has brought is the result of the new wind tunnel coming online which as previously reported was due to happen in June, coupled with the view up redbulls skirts that we all got at Monaco?
While at the same time acknowledging some gains could be attributed to the fact that some tracks suit one car better than another.

LionsHeart
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Joined: 09 Mar 2023, 19:21

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Looking at the free practices, I got the impression that Lando was riding with the old front wing specification to a greater extent, and I even assumed that in qualifying he would ride with the old one, since it is difficult to see the difference on TV broadcasts. But yesterday we managed to see in qualifying and yes, Lando was driving with a new specification.

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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WOW, just WOW, epic job by Lando and Oscar. So good to see the team are back on an upward trajectory with the latest upgrades!

It just confirms for me that PP was never the problem, Key was and now that he's out of the way, the team are doing a much better job! =D>
"In downforce we trust"

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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 17:04
Can we safely say that sacking James Key, getting Andrea Stella in a higher position releasing the potential of Peter Prodromou and bringing Neil Oatley on the front did make a difference after all.
Yep, I think this proves that Key was a giant roadblock who was holding the team back!
"In downforce we trust"

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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Slahinki wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:41
CjC wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:27
Also, can we keep the chrome now??
It's insane how good it looks on track. I've never been a fan of the regular livery this season, but this relatively minor revision is already so much better. Chrome/papaya car next year, please, McLaren. [-o<
I've gotta say, I didn't hate it in the photos, but in-motion it goes from ok to looking fantastic.
"In downforce we trust"

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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Mostlyeels wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 03:35
Mansell89 wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:19
Comments from Lando Norris and Andrea Stella via BBC website following quali:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66144514
...

Andrea Stella:

The poor winter led to technical director James Key leaving the team and a restructure of McLaren's design department. And Stella singled out aerodynamics lead Peter Prodromou, brought back into front-line design after years on the side projects, for praise.
PP's been working on "side projects" for "years"? Is this just a different way of saying "not the aero lead," or is it inacccurate reporting, or actually the case?
This seems to confirm that Key had sidelined PP, and now he's back where he should be.
"In downforce we trust"

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BMMR61
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 13:02
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Mika Hakkinen should start his own tech podcast, clearly he has a strong inside line to the McLaren design team. His predictions were beyond bold and I swallowed them! Yes I’ve been the optimist here but these last two weekends have exceeded what I thought possible in terms of rate of trajectory. The aero results can now provide quality data for the way forward this season. Next season they have to tackle the “strange” handling characteristics so often spoke of which Lando says are still there with the increased aero efficiency. So the team will be making the latter deficiency and anti squat priorities for 2024, no?
Big shout out to Oscar who again didn’t look like an F1 rookie in really challenging conditions. We have a driver lineup to challenge Ferrari and Mercedes who both have 10+ year careers ahead of them!

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BMMR61
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 04:11
Mostlyeels wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 03:35
Mansell89 wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:19
Comments from Lando Norris and Andrea Stella via BBC website following quali:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66144514
...

Andrea Stella:

The poor winter led to technical director James Key leaving the team and a restructure of McLaren's design department. And Stella singled out aerodynamics lead Peter Prodromou, brought back into front-line design after years on the side projects, for praise.
PP's been working on "side projects" for "years"? Is this just a different way of saying "not the aero lead," or is it inacccurate reporting, or actually the case?
This seems to confirm that Key had sidelined PP, and now he's back where he should be.
Key was overall in charge and what I heard around the time of his departure was the aero team felt sidelined. So if I understand it, he was prioritising chassis dynamics ahead of aero efficiency. My belief is, humbly, that aero is at least 8.5/10 in performance hence why we stalled out in late 2021 with any aero development being at best, watered down despite the strong results up to Sochi.

swifteddie1
swifteddie1
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Joined: 25 Jan 2012, 20:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Great job by the team. Glad to see the hard work from the team paying off. Let's hope for some good points tomorrow.

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MrGapes
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Ground Effect
Ground Effect
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Mostlyeels wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 03:35
Mansell89 wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:19
Comments from Lando Norris and Andrea Stella via BBC website following quali:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66144514
...

Andrea Stella:

The poor winter led to technical director James Key leaving the team and a restructure of McLaren's design department. And Stella singled out aerodynamics lead Peter Prodromou, brought back into front-line design after years on the side projects, for praise.
PP's been working on "side projects" for "years"? Is this just a different way of saying "not the aero lead," or is it inacccurate reporting, or actually the case?
I was stunned when I read that, if that's the case it's a wonder he stayed this long in the team. He's a McLaren man, joined fresh out of University in the very early '90's, if I'm remembering accurately. Newey met him in the team and took him along to Redbull. James Allen in an article wrote that Newey never took people along with him whenever he moved, but such was the regard he had for Prodromou. I'm really curious to know the time-line of his movement from the front line.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

MTudor
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Joined: 01 Feb 2022, 23:24

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:27
Also, can we keep the chrome now??
😂😂😂😂

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I wanted to do an analysis of how much impact the new upgrades have influenced McLaren’s performance this weekend, but last year’s qualifying session was very wet and the times / telemetry of that session wouldn’t allow us to make a fair comparison year on year… Nevertheless, we may have a few pieces of data that could help.

A couple of comments first:
- The biggest takeaway from qualifying for me was the parity between both drivers, something sorely missed last season… The fact that Piastri was so close to Lando’s time is not only very positive for the team in terms of result, but it also should boost Oscar’s confidence on himself, as well as the team’s confidence on him.
- For year against year comparison, we would have to use FP2, which is the most representative session (both run in the dry), of course engine modes, fuel loads and the fact that we have also a different tire construction this year will have an effect in the results.

FP2 - 2022 (white) vs FP2 - 2023 (orange):

Image

Not what I would have expected in some aspects, starting with the lap times… The McLaren was faster in 2022 FP2 compared to 2023 FP2, looking at where that time is made/lost would indicate that Lando was pushing a bit harder during FP2 of last year compared to this one (let’s keep in mind that they were doing several correlation tests during FP2 this weekend)… Most of the time lost vs previous year is in turns 1 and 2 (which are flat out) and in the final corner.

But we can see from the telemetry that there is a clear reduction in drag (run from T4 to T5 - Wellington Straight) as well as the time gained in the Hangar Straight, which interestingly places the MCL60 faster when they reach Club (T14)… In addition, and more importantly, the MCL60 carries more speed through the slow corners at the Loop, Brooklands and a very good exit from Chapel.

Even when the times don’t show it, based on the drag reduction and higher minimum corner speed in tricky corners, the MCL60 is clearly ahead of its predecessor.

Since we don’t have good data from Qualifying, which is where it matters… Instead of comparing it to previous year, I thought a look at how they are doing versus their target competitors (Aston Martin, Mercedes and Ferrari… The group we all want them to belong to) might be a good alternative:

Mclaren vs Aston Martin:

Image

The McLaren is a whooping 7 tenths faster than the Aston during qualifying, Lando did his final lap a little later than Alonso and there is definitely an impact from track evolution on the times, but we can still find out some traits:

A) The Mclaren carries more speed through the corners: Lando manages to gain most of the time against Alonso in the slow corners, in Village, Luffield, the exit of Chappel as well as in Club.
B) The McLaren still loses in the straights: I thought initially that the losses in the straights were due to a more efficient DRS from the Aston, but looking at the telemetry for their fastest laps without DRS, the Aston still has an edge, but even when drag is still involved I still believe that is more of a deployment strategy issue than just drag, since the delta presents itself closer to the 300km/h mark than 250km/h (where we should start to see the impact of drag), the fact that it shows itself around 290km/h may seem to indicate that there is more influence from deployment than there is from drag (without negating that there is still some more drag that needs to be shed.

Mclaren vs Ferrari:

Image

Lando was capable to beat the Ferrari’s by 2 tenths, where did the time came from:

A) Mclaren still showing more minimum speed in key corners clawing back the time lost in the straights in T4, T5, the exit of Chapel and beating the Ferrari in Stowe and Club… It is the cornering and braking performance of the MCL60 that gave them an edge
B) As with Aston, the MCL60 loses most of it’s time in the straights, but interestingly the time lost there is less than a tenth on either straight.

McLaren vs Mercedes:

Image

A little bit of a different picture, in this case there isn’t a clear advantage for McLaren in regards to slow speed (albeit in the beginning of the lap) and there is still more top speed from Mercedes compared to McLaren, although the delta is smaller compared to the others.

Lando beats Hamilton in the final sector, with an impressive exit out of Chapel and Stowe, gaining additional time at Club.

From the above, McLaren clearly still has a deficit in top speed vs their (hopefully new) direct rivals, but a mix of strong low corner speed and traction gives it the edge and helps it overcome it… Still a lot of work for the Team, but there is definitely improvement in key aspects of the car… In a few more races, with more time for the team to dial in the new setup and hopefully more representative qualifying sessions, we should be able to get a more clear picture.