2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Mansell89
Mansell89
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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MTudor wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 19:59
mwillems wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 18:08
A trait of the RB is how it can follow other cars. I look forward to seeing how the Mclaren behaves in this regard tomorrow.
Mclaren still has a drag problem and the Mercedes PU dosen't help either(it's the 3rd slowest on the grid) so I expect that tomorrow we will fall in the 5-6 positions on the straits.
I don’t think you qualify P2 and P3 at Silverstone with a PU that is significantly behind Honda and Ferrari- I think , and the teams seem to all say this now- that they are within a very small percentage of performance with one another. Straight line speed appears to be heavily linked to drag/aero concepts and DRS.

Im not seeing Haas, Alpha R or Alpha T standing out to suggest they have outstanding PUs now?

Do we have any speed data from quali today? I too wanted to see this to understand if McLaren upgrades are making them more slippery.

blastdoman
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 20:12
MTudor wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 19:59
mwillems wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 18:08
A trait of the RB is how it can follow other cars. I look forward to seeing how the Mclaren behaves in this regard tomorrow.
Mclaren still has a drag problem and the Mercedes PU dosen't help either(it's the 3rd slowest on the grid) so I expect that tomorrow we will fall in the 5-6 positions on the straits.
That charts I've seen, which are not conclusive, show the Mclaren pretty handy on the straights. I haven't seen top speeds yet though.

I do t think we will drop back to 7th and 8th, we are faster than many of the cars behind.
There is still lack of top of speed at the end of the straights, but the loss of top speed seems to be less drag induced and potentially more due to deployment strategy according to what I saw… This is not bad, since if the delta in top speed is created close to the end of the straight and carrying better speed in the previous corners, they won’t be as vulnerable as one would think.

Tomorrow’s race will be decided by tire degradation more than top speed.

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mwillems
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 21:13
mwillems wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 20:12
MTudor wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 19:59


Mclaren still has a drag problem and the Mercedes PU dosen't help either(it's the 3rd slowest on the grid) so I expect that tomorrow we will fall in the 5-6 positions on the straits.
That charts I've seen, which are not conclusive, show the Mclaren pretty handy on the straights. I haven't seen top speeds yet though.

I do t think we will drop back to 7th and 8th, we are faster than many of the cars behind.
There is still lack of top of speed at the end of the straights, but the loss of top speed seems to be less drag induced and potentially more due to deployment strategy according to what I saw… This is not bad, since if the delta in top speed is created close to the end of the straight and carrying better speed in the previous corners, they won’t be as vulnerable as one would think.

Tomorrow’s race will be decided by tire degradation more than top speed.
Important to add that we have a new set of tyre compounds debuting at Silverstone.

What you're saying makes sense as I think we were among the fastest on the straights overall and top speed is just one factor.

Some of the exits onto the straights are also favourable to Mclaren with some mid to high speed corners. There's a couple of slow corners before the home straight but everywhere else suits the Mclaren.

I think the car is just good here.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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willmesquita
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I love this feeling! 🧡
To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone. ― Bruce McLaren

papayaorange.com.br

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organic
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Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 21:33
SmallSoldier wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 21:13
mwillems wrote:
08 Jul 2023, 20:12


That charts I've seen, which are not conclusive, show the Mclaren pretty handy on the straights. I haven't seen top speeds yet though.

I do t think we will drop back to 7th and 8th, we are faster than many of the cars behind.
There is still lack of top of speed at the end of the straights, but the loss of top speed seems to be less drag induced and potentially more due to deployment strategy according to what I saw… This is not bad, since if the delta in top speed is created close to the end of the straight and carrying better speed in the previous corners, they won’t be as vulnerable as one would think.

Tomorrow’s race will be decided by tire degradation more than top speed.
Important to add that we have a new set of tyre compounds debuting at Silverstone.
It's the same set of rubber compounds but a different, sturdier, front tyre construction only.

Slahinki
Slahinki
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Just got to watch qualifying, and what a result! I can hardly believe my eyes... :wtf: Well done to the team, now let's see how the race pans out! =D>

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_DM_
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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A lot of words about Lando. He is really good. But not enough words about Oscar (.
I'm glad he pulled up to the Lando. If they push each other, it's just a fantastic.

Spoutnik
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Im must say Im pretty impressed with Piastri ! Even if he's still inconsistent, it's a big achievment to match Norris' pace

Spoutnik
Spoutnik
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
15 Jun 2023, 14:46
Funny - retrospectively - to read the reaction on this topic when I posted what Hakkinen said =D>

Mansell89
Mansell89
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Comments from Lando Norris and Andrea Stella via BBC website following quali:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66144514

Lando:

Can McLaren keep this up?

McLaren's result confirmed the progress they made at last weekend's Austrian Grand Prix, the first event at which they ran a major upgrade to their car. As well as underlining the impressive debut season Piastri has been constructing - quietly until now.

Only Norris had the aerodynamic revisions in Austria, and he qualified and finished fourth, helped by a penalty for Hamilton exceeding track limits.

Piastri had them for the first time this weekend at Silverstone, while Norris had a new front wing in addition.

McLaren are keeping their expectations and hopes in check, saying that the cool conditions of qualifying and the high-speed nature of the circuit helped them because they played into strengths of their car, while their weaknesses were not highlighted.

They don't want anyone to be under any illusions that they will be capable of this result every race from now on.

Norris said: "It's definitely clear that we made some improvements. That's very, very evident.

"I don't want to look forward to the bad races. There's going to be a couple, because there's definitely tracks that we know we're going to struggle more at.

"These have been tracks where our strengths have really come through. High-speed [corners] is one of our strengths and we have quite a bit of that here.

"We've also improved the car, so the overall speed and performance has just taken a decent step forward.

"If I was going to be negative, there are definitely going to be some tracks that we are going to struggle more at. Our weaknesses are still the same and quite weak. So I think we really need to try and tackle them if we want to be able to be here more consistently. But we've taken a step forward."


Andrea Stella:

Where has this come from?

McLaren's step forward comes after a major reshuffle in the team following a difficult winter.

Team principal Andrea Stella admitted before the car had even run this year that McLaren had missed their development targets and that they expected to improve later in the season once performance they found too late was brought to the car. These latest upgrades are what he was referring to.

"We are on a journey," Stella said. "The most important thing is understanding the direction, understanding what you need on this journey.

"This is true in terms of reorganising the team, in terms of technical direction on the car. Just put the things you need in line and results will come as a consequence.

"It's a good day for McLaren but my thoughts are like: let's understand this result, what do we need to do extra, can we confirm the development plan, everyone head down on the development plan."

The poor winter led to technical director James Key leaving the team and a restructure of McLaren's design department. And Stella singled out aerodynamics lead Peter Prodromou, brought back into front-line design after years on the side projects, for praise.

Is the McLaren just a Red Bull copy?

Hamilton said it was "really, really great to see" McLaren's progress. And this was not a remark made through gritted teeth.

As the team that gave him his debut, nurtured him since he joined them aged 12, for whom he won his first world title and 21 grands prix, McLaren has a special place in Hamilton's heart.

But McLaren's performance also underlined the lack thereof at Mercedes - and Hamilton thought it proved a point he has been making to his team since last year, and which they did not take on board until too late this year.

"I'm not surprised," he said. "If you look at the car, it makes sense.

"If you just put it alongside a Red Bull, it looks very, very similar down the side, and it's working."

Hamilton was instrumental in the decision Mercedes made after the pre-season test this season that they had to abandon their unique design concept and start exploring the very different one pioneered by Red Bull.

Mercedes have made their own changes in this direction since, but they have not created the immediate obvious uplift seen at McLaren.

Team principal Toto Wolff was asked whether McLaren's performance raised questions for Mercedes as to why they had not been able to make the same sort of leap - the sort of step Aston Martin also made over the winter.

Wolff put his best positive spin on it, saying: "It is a good example of how we can turn it around."

But he added: "The car looks like a Red Bull. I guess this is what Lewis was referring to. This design looks like a good direction, but it is easier said than done.

"Each of us had bodywork that looks like the Reds Bull in the tunnel but they didn't come up with performance so you have to leave no stone unturned. Another team just found a second in performance."

This was a point Stella emphasised as well.

"I'm sure all teams got inspiration from looking at the Red Bull car, like they got inspiration from the photos all teams get of any other car.

"Teams are equipped to try and absorb intellectual property from looking at the photos. But taking inspiration or looking at a photo doesn't mean you copy the geometry, install it in your CFD runs in the computer simulation or the wind tunnel, and the car lights up in terms of downforce.

"Normally what happens is that it goes down, because your car is already optimised around what you have done up until that point.

"The key element is understanding that some concepts have more potential that will allow you to develop faster and for longer and here is where you need to have the right people in the right place.

"It would detract from our aerodynamic department if I said: 'Oh, we saw that and now we have a solution.'

"We saw that and now you say: 'Ah, maybe you can do this.' But then you have to do your own job and your own iteration or you don't get to something that actually works."

CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Spoutnik wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:03
Spoutnik wrote:
15 Jun 2023, 14:46
Funny - retrospectively - to read the reaction on this topic when I posted what Hakkinen said =D>
I was hoping this would re-appear🤣
Just a fan's point of view

CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Also, can we keep the chrome now??
Just a fan's point of view

Slahinki
Slahinki
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Joined: 20 Mar 2022, 03:09

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:27
Also, can we keep the chrome now??
It's insane how good it looks on track. I've never been a fan of the regular livery this season, but this relatively minor revision is already so much better. Chrome/papaya car next year, please, McLaren. [-o<

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scuderiabrandon
102
Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Mansell89 wrote:
09 Jul 2023, 00:19
Comments from Lando Norris and Andrea Stella via BBC website following quali:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/66144514

Lando:

Can McLaren keep this up?

McLaren's result confirmed the progress they made at last weekend's Austrian Grand Prix, the first event at which they ran a major upgrade to their car. As well as underlining the impressive debut season Piastri has been constructing - quietly until now.

Only Norris had the aerodynamic revisions in Austria, and he qualified and finished fourth, helped by a penalty for Hamilton exceeding track limits.

Piastri had them for the first time this weekend at Silverstone, while Norris had a new front wing in addition.

McLaren are keeping their expectations and hopes in check, saying that the cool conditions of qualifying and the high-speed nature of the circuit helped them because they played into strengths of their car, while their weaknesses were not highlighted.

They don't want anyone to be under any illusions that they will be capable of this result every race from now on.

Norris said: "It's definitely clear that we made some improvements. That's very, very evident.

"I don't want to look forward to the bad races. There's going to be a couple, because there's definitely tracks that we know we're going to struggle more at.

"These have been tracks where our strengths have really come through. High-speed [corners] is one of our strengths and we have quite a bit of that here.

"We've also improved the car, so the overall speed and performance has just taken a decent step forward.

"If I was going to be negative, there are definitely going to be some tracks that we are going to struggle more at. Our weaknesses are still the same and quite weak. So I think we really need to try and tackle them if we want to be able to be here more consistently. But we've taken a step forward."


Andrea Stella:

Where has this come from?

McLaren's step forward comes after a major reshuffle in the team following a difficult winter.

Team principal Andrea Stella admitted before the car had even run this year that McLaren had missed their development targets and that they expected to improve later in the season once performance they found too late was brought to the car. These latest upgrades are what he was referring to.

"We are on a journey," Stella said. "The most important thing is understanding the direction, understanding what you need on this journey.

"This is true in terms of reorganising the team, in terms of technical direction on the car. Just put the things you need in line and results will come as a consequence.

"It's a good day for McLaren but my thoughts are like: let's understand this result, what do we need to do extra, can we confirm the development plan, everyone head down on the development plan."

The poor winter led to technical director James Key leaving the team and a restructure of McLaren's design department. And Stella singled out aerodynamics lead Peter Prodromou, brought back into front-line design after years on the side projects, for praise.

Is the McLaren just a Red Bull copy?

Hamilton said it was "really, really great to see" McLaren's progress. And this was not a remark made through gritted teeth.

As the team that gave him his debut, nurtured him since he joined them aged 12, for whom he won his first world title and 21 grands prix, McLaren has a special place in Hamilton's heart.

But McLaren's performance also underlined the lack thereof at Mercedes - and Hamilton thought it proved a point he has been making to his team since last year, and which they did not take on board until too late this year.

"I'm not surprised," he said. "If you look at the car, it makes sense.

"If you just put it alongside a Red Bull, it looks very, very similar down the side, and it's working."

Hamilton was instrumental in the decision Mercedes made after the pre-season test this season that they had to abandon their unique design concept and start exploring the very different one pioneered by Red Bull.

Mercedes have made their own changes in this direction since, but they have not created the immediate obvious uplift seen at McLaren.

Team principal Toto Wolff was asked whether McLaren's performance raised questions for Mercedes as to why they had not been able to make the same sort of leap - the sort of step Aston Martin also made over the winter.

Wolff put his best positive spin on it, saying: "It is a good example of how we can turn it around."

But he added: "The car looks like a Red Bull. I guess this is what Lewis was referring to. This design looks like a good direction, but it is easier said than done.

"Each of us had bodywork that looks like the Reds Bull in the tunnel but they didn't come up with performance so you have to leave no stone unturned. Another team just found a second in performance."

This was a point Stella emphasised as well.

"I'm sure all teams got inspiration from looking at the Red Bull car, like they got inspiration from the photos all teams get of any other car.

"Teams are equipped to try and absorb intellectual property from looking at the photos. But taking inspiration or looking at a photo doesn't mean you copy the geometry, install it in your CFD runs in the computer simulation or the wind tunnel, and the car lights up in terms of downforce.

"Normally what happens is that it goes down, because your car is already optimised around what you have done up until that point.

"The key element is understanding that some concepts have more potential that will allow you to develop faster and for longer and here is where you need to have the right people in the right place.

"It would detract from our aerodynamic department if I said: 'Oh, we saw that and now we have a solution.'

"We saw that and now you say: 'Ah, maybe you can do this.' But then you have to do your own job and your own iteration or you don't get to something that actually works."
I think this is a fair way of going about things. They've generally been more competitive on green and front limited circuits. Even with the old specification car. But there is progress nonetheless.

They are still on the draggy side. All teams have lost too much dwf whilst chasing straight line performance and vice versa. Ferrari at the start of the season and I believe it is the rut Aston Martin find themselves in currently. Only RB so far have nailed the cD/cL ratio.

I hope the chrome becomes the base livery next season. [-o<